Why is Israel getting away with these atrocities?

maybe i'm just dense, but how does "fear no nukes" translate into "cowardly?"

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huh. i see water on one side. and egypt on another. i'm not entirely sure how hostile jordan is, either...(edit: yes, i know iran is rather hostile, and saudia arabia and iraq are not exactly friendly either... but palestine is not officially a country, and is really part of israel, according to israel. you don't get to count people within your claimed borders as "agressive neighbors," really.)Edited by arachnophilia, : edit

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well, that's pretty much every country that actually borders israel.except palestine, which "doesn't count."

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frankly, at this point, placing the blame of "he shot first!" isn't really valid. it's war, and has been for a long time. you're never going to get back to the ultimate "she started it!" the question, really, should be: what can we do now to make it better?

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i disagree. i think they are. (well, maybe not hamas...)i just don't think they're interested in compromise. both sides know they must, but nobody wants to be anyone else's fool. yes. it's terrible. i don't really consider either side innocent.

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i meant in general, but ok.

they are entirely within the claimed borders of israel. according to israel, palestine is not a country. and vice versa, btw -- but guess which one the world (you know, all those countries that surround those arab nations) sides with?i would consider them hostile neighbors, yes. but israel considers them hostile dissidents and refuges. yeah? like ethiopia?

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and vice-versa, faith. it is utter ignorance to paint either side as innocent victim or agressive threat. this is also ignorance. islam is not the cause of the palestinian/israeli conflict. it's a tool the some radical palestinians use, yes. the conflict is not even arab versus hebrew. there is a very large portion of the israeli population that is not arabic, but muslim as well. and certainly, not all terrorism is islamic. faith, like i said. go live in israel for a while, and tell me it's not more complicated than this. go live in palestine for a year, and tell me you don't understand why they're willing to blow themselves up.palestine is basically a hell-hole. it's almost third world, living next to one of the most technologically advanced nations in the world. with regular israeli military action, checkpoints, and now the wall that divides not just israel from palestine, but the palestinian communities themselves, it is quite easy to blame israel for all of palestine's problems. some of the charges might even be justified. and with the suicide bombers coming into israel from palestine, it's quite easy to see palestine as a threat -- justifying things like the wall, the checkpoints, and military action.it's a vicious cycle. ending the conflict would take compromise (something neither side is willing to do), and aid extended from israel to a real nation of palestine. those of us that live in the real world recognize this. blind support of one side or the other does nothing to fuel the conflict. similarly, if we were the agressor in iraq, we could have nuked it off the planet. perhaps this has something to do with the dispute? both sides feel the land is promised to them.

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no, actually i don't. maybe i'm just ignorant of something. but to my knowledge, egypt is not hostile. what other north african countries are?

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yes. or rather, does a group have the right to seceed? i would say yes, as well. compromise on both sides, and aid from israel to palestine. love your neighbors. if palestine is granted some of their demands, and is willing to let go of others, and israel helps to make it a nicer place to live, we would quickly see this war disappear.

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again, i think it is you who is unable or unwilling to face reality. nobody thinks suicide bombing is ok, or excusable. but that's not the whole picture of what is going on in israel. and understanding the factors that motivate people to blow themselves up on crowded buses is not "politically correct" or "moral equivalence." it's the first step in fixing things.oh, that's right. i forgot. the only good arab is a dead arab. that's the only way to stop the violence, isn't it? more violence.both sides have to be party to the solution. both sides have to compromise. not just one.

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i think you fail to see the irony of this statement, and its logical conclusions.

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i've heard from my israeli friends that driving in israel is much more hazardous than it is here. nobody stops to let anybody in. and if they do, the other person doesn't take the opportunity. if you're in line at the grocery store, and a crippled old lady comes up behind you, and you offer to let her go ahead, she won't take it.nobody gives anything away for free, and if they do, they're just trying to trick you. and so nobody takes anything, or does anything, just because someone else told them to -- nobody wants to be anybody else's fool.now look at how palestinians reacted when israel gave them gaza:"we don't want it."palestinians simply will not take a palestinian state set up by israel. that's hardly their own state -- it's israel part two. and they're not gonna take their own land just because israel said so. it's hard to understand this sort of thing, if you don't understand the cultural information above.i don't think the average palestinian wants all jews dead. i don't think a majority even wants that, even if they did elect hamas. this crap you're pulling about one party being nothing but good and the other being nothing but bad is far from addressing the reality of the situation. it reads like anti-islamic zionist rhetoric.Edited by arachnophilia, : removed bit that was a little too close to a flame. thought better of it

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well, yes. but it was theirs first, wasn't it?

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no, i didn't argue that. that was what you said, actually. thus, the irony that you missed. yes, because the palestinians are nobodies. afterall, they're only dissidents and refuges. it's not like they actually live there or anything. which jews, specifically? the european jews? the ethiopian jews? or the ones that were already there for centuries not owning it? again, i think you have no idea what israel is actually like. it's something rather like the US is, comprised of people of many different origins. there are all kinds of jews in israel, african, european, american, and semitic jews. there are many, many christians, and many muslims as well. and there are a vast number of people who are secular, with various kinds of ethnic backgrounds.

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