Try to keep hatred out of our Constitution.

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I wouldn't solve any of those problems by allowing same sex marriage.

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Why do you care who the government says can get married?

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I'd find a different way, especially since I'm one of those that doesn't want same sex couples to be able to adopt.

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Why not?

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This question was concerning same sex couples being able to adopt. That would be a long drawn out discussion that you and I would never agree on. When it becomes legal, which it will, no one will consult with me, so we don't have to worry about my position, anyway.

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Coward. Anyway, I'd just like you to know that I have lived for years in a town where gay adoption is legal and also have several good friends who were raised by gay or lesbian couples, and I can tell you that they are all just normal families who go about their lives just like everybody else.I am surprised at you, truthlover. I would have thought that you would be more rational than to reject gay adoption out of hand, especially when there are many, many thousands of children waiting for adoption who will never get a stable home and will be turned out to fend for themselves when they turn 18. Edited by schrafinator, : fixed tense of word

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So much for the relevance of "studies."

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So, I suppose all of those "studies" which show a positive correlation between church attendance and religious faith and better recovery rates after serious illness are a load of bollocks, as well?

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Trust you to find the most subjective slanderous terms for your opponents.

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Faith, don't you continually call people who advocate for gay marriage "crazy"?I'd say put your own house in order before criticizing others for the very behavior you are engaging in.

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But have not all the right to try to move the country in the directions they think it ought to go?

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Yes, but right now in the US the House of Represenatives, and to a lesser degree, the Senate, the elected officials are not really allowed, for the most part, to represent the districts or states they represent.The Republican leadership gives campaign money and committee seats to people who are loyal to the leadership, so regardless of who people vote into office, if they want to participate at all, they have to do what the leadership says, which means that the White House is in charge of the House and the Senate. The Democrats are basically completely shut out.

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Because we've vowed to remain married for the rest of our lives.

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That's what you said in your religious ceremony, I'm sure, but people getting married at a courthouse don't have to vow any such thing.So, let's assume that you got married in a civil service. How is it different if your roomate was your wife?

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We don't allow homosexual activity, much less homosexual marriage, and we would put out anyone who did it.

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Wow, intolerance and hatred and fear of difference even from you, truthlover.I would have thought that you would embrace love in all it's forms.

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It would destroy our lifestyle.

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Your "lifestyle"?Your "gay-free lifestyle"?

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Well, you can call it intolerance, hatred, and fear, but we've had a lot of homosexuals visit this community, and one that stayed for over a year just to visit. I don't think they've felt hated or feared.

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But what if some of the children born in your community were gay?How do you think they would feel?They certainly would have to lie to cover up their sexual nature or risk being thrown out of their community. They would almost certainly feel unaccepted just for existing.I don't call that loving, nor tolerant.You clearly do fear homosexuals if you don't want them living in your community.

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Obviously, love for us does not include allowing any and all behavior that might be practiced.

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But homosexuality isn't only about behavior.It is about the very nature of a person's sexuality.

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Homosexuals are not the only ones that have limits on their behavior when they stay here; everyone does. That's so in every society, and because ours happens to include limits on sexual behavior, for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, doesn't mean that those particular limits are motivated by hatred and fear.

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But why else do you reject homosexuality if not through disgust and fear of homosexual behavior?

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What are you going to do when Christians absolutely refuse to obey laws forcing them to accept homosexuals* in their churches

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There won't be any laws forcing any religious body to accept homosexuals.That would violate the constitutional right to freedom of religion.You can discriminate all you want.That's how the Catholic church and other churches can't be sued for not allowing women to become ordained as priests or pastors.Where did you ever get the idea that anyone is interested in passing laws like that?Paranoid much?

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and communities?

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Well, if you discriminate illegaly, then you pay the price of breaking the law, whatever that is.You'll just have to learn to cope, just like the racists did when Jim Crow and school segregation ended, and the sexists did when women won the right to vote, own property, go to university, enter the workplace, etc.Of course, nobody is going to force you to have the married gay couple who lives down the street over for dinner any more than you are forced to have the black or Korean or Muslim or Buddhist couple in your home now, so I can't think of why you are feeling so put upon and jumpy.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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Sorry, but sin is sin and those groups deny Christ who say it isn't.

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Of course you, Faith, are the arbiter of all that is Christian.All fall prostrate before Faith!!

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When it comes to knowing what sin is according to the Bible, yes I am, and so is every other Christian who knows and trusts the Bible.

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Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins, Faith?

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knowing I am one of the priesthood of believers is not pride.

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But believing oneself to have perfect knowledge is very prideful.Now, I'd love a reply to message 142, if you'd be so kind.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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Oh well, I do claim the "perfect knowledge" that homosexual behavior is sin. I can show you where it's written too.

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I can show you where other "abominations" are written that I'll bet you don't follow, nor think about at all.You pick and choose what to be concerned about.

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There's little to say to your post #142. I guess you believe it won't come to that.

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Do you really think that we will change the constitution here in the US to force churches to accept homosexuals?Do you really believe that?

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But it already has here and there, the attempt to force a church to accept gays as employees some years ago as I recall.

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Well, that's because they were employees, not members.

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The insistent attitude, expressed at evc for instance, that the church's position is "intolerance" and a violation of civil rights could well lead to such legal measures.

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But a church hiring an employee is not at all the same thing as accepting someone as a member of the congregation.

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Edit: And a case in Australia where a pastor was arrested for preaching that homosexual behavior is sin. Australia isn't the US but hey, getting close. Edit: Oh I guess it was Sweden. But I thought I heard something about Australia too.

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Er, who cares what they do in other countries?

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Maybe we could have a bet.

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Sure, I'm game.

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Edit: Oh, and yes we'll cope if the law goes against us. Laws that directly oppose God must be broken.

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Yes.If gay marriage is made legal, you make sure to NOT marry someone of the same gender!Of course, you could have some civil sevants who break the law by refusing you perform civil ceremonies or who maybe shred marriage license applications or something, but they will be fired and replaced.

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Time for civil disobedience in that case, to sit in jail if necessary, or disband the churches and go underground the way the churches are in all the other pagan places around the world where they persecute Christians, like China.

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Why on earth would you disband the churches?Nobody is going to make any religious institution marry gay folks.That would be aginst the constitution.You really need to stop with the melodrama and delusions of persecution, Faith, they make you look terribly paranoid.

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*If* that's possible,

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Why on earth would you think it impossible that a child born at your village would be gay?Gay folk have been around for as long as humans have.

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and *if* homosexuality isn't environmentally produced,

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There is evidence that homosexuality may be produced environmentally; in the womb. Hormones, you know.However, if you are saying that being around gay people or in a culture which accepts homosexuality will make people who otherwise would never be attracted to the same gender suddenly turn gay, I think you are gravely mistaken.Otherwise, then all of the gay people in the most homophobic places would suddenly stop being gay and start being attracted to the opposite gender, wouldn't they?What we find is that these feelings do not change, and instead gay people in these places tend to suffer from more depression and commit suicide more than in places where they are accepted.

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which is entirely possible, then we'll deal with that if it ever comes up. I can't answer that, because it's never happened. Obviously, we'll have to deal with that somehow.

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You already said that you would turn homosexuals out of your village.Like I said, since you make your attitude common knowledge, do you really think that a gay teen born there is going to broadcast their feelings to you or anyone else? They will be forced to lie out of fear.They will feel unwanted and shameful and self-loathing without you knowing anything about it, most likely.

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We have never had a child in our midst prone to homosexuality.

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That you know of.

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Without knowing how the stats are broken down but just taking them globally I can't be too sure but the odds are you have some individuals in your village that you will have to deal with. Hopefully with the tolerance and kindness that you have exhibited here.

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Er, he's already said he'd put gay people out of his village.If any of the kids are gay (and statistically, there probably are some), they certainly aren't going to advertize it.