Fresh Problem with the Ark

quote:

---

All the water of the flood is salty to some extent (being a mixture of sea, lake, underground and rain water), and is filled with silt too (according to some versions anyway) -- NOT potable. The rain only falls (consistently) for 40 d/n's and the ark floats for another 600 plus days before landing.

---

600 days floating? I can tell you, it was only a little over 1 year. Do I need to further embarass you on this matter, or will you simply close the thread? Sorry, when it comes to the flood, you are all wet.

quote:

---

Tell you what: figure out exactly how many days the ark floated, then tell be how the water can be kept potable for that length of time.

---

The flood time is given in the bible, and is somewhere around a year and a few weeks. I would think the water they drank may have come from the water they were floating on. How much water, by the way, would a creature, say, a bear drink during hibernation? I suspect very little, if indeed the animals were sort of 'shut down'?!
Anyhow, in a world full of wayer it seems to me that it was not as salty at least in places as today's seas. Say, for example in areas where the fountains of the deep were spouting, there may have been areas of more or less saltiness. After all, if God personally closed the ark door, would He not guide the boat to the best areas of good water, and perhaps less waves, etc?
Another factor comes to mind. How much water do you think covered the planet then? How deep? What if, for example there was water brought in from deep space? There is a lot going on out there, with some galaxies, I believe said to be extremely cold, others very hot. If some of that was added to the mix at flood time, and 'blown away' after it was ended, say by the 'great wind' -then how would we measure that? How salty was the water that spurted out of the earth? If God was the operational Head, and He made the whole universe, as well as the world, then He had a lot to work with!
After all, granny bacteria sure didn't help in that one!

quote:

---

pathogens from all the "effluent" from the ark, all floating around the ark.

---

There were 8 people in the little floating barn to clean up, you know. Clean as a whistle, no doubt. Especially if God flicked the hibernation switch on His critters! One bird even now, the black swift, has young that, it is believed, go into a sort of hibernation state, because it's parents are in the air around 16 hours a day!
Tell you what, you can have some of the water in some of today's cities, that come from lakes and rivers where they dump sewage, and industrial waste! I'll take a world full of good water, sky high, that my ark was guided by God over any day! Did they boil it, or add something to it for safety? I don't know. God could have led them just right over the nice cleaner, fresher water areas, so I doubt it was needed, but He's not stupid, it was all worked out to perfection. Besides, it may not have rained the whole flood year all over the world, but ot very well may have rained in the location the ark was pretty well the whole time!!! How hard is it to rig up a system to pipe some down from several little openings near the top of the ark! This even makes more sense to me, actually. Worst case scenario, maybe they dropped a rope bucket down for some bath water, if the rain was light some particular day!

quote:

---

You want to bring in miracles, OK, but start your own topic in one of the faith forums for it. This thread is for discussion of science.

---

Many people study bears and hibernation. I think it's all really a miracle. Including the sun, moon, and stars. Does that mean I can't guess as to how far they are? The cup o soup creator miracle, though, I don't buy.
When you mention a worldwide flood, you are talking about nothing else in the world BUT a miracle! When you talk creation-same deal. If you mention the flood at all, you have to deal with the reason it came, and who dun it. Science is the study of things around us, and trying to understand-not merely godless conjecture to support some 'we all blew out of a pea sized hot little creator' pet theory.

quote:

---

Why did God use such a convoluted system to get rid of everyone and everything he was sick of? Why not just have them drop dead, or just disappear for that matter...

---

Perhaps the demo to the universe of how bad man can get if he rejects God was not complete. How would I know? I don't tell Him what to do?

quote:

---

a massive deluge, followed by massive plate tectonic shifts in order to return the land - it all seems far from "perfection" to me...

---

Lose the tectonic speculation and you may get closer to it. --far from perfecion? Of course, being seperated to such an extent from the creator, and suffering in a sinful, mortal body isn't perfect. He'll fix all that soon, and the demo will be over, with valuable lessons for all.

Man's always had a sewage problem. No one has ever had more room to dump it either!

Why not? Do you think cavemen built the boat?

quote:

---

where do you have evidence for any "hibernation" scenario?

---

It would make sense. God is smart. After all, the situation was far from normal. I heard somewhere that animals in a disaster, like a fire, will huddle together, suspending the usual prey-preditor relationship, till the danger subsides, then- kick right back into it. Who knows what mechanism He built in that He could just turn on?

quote:

---

where do you have evidence for any rain after the 40 days? ... I would think an "inerrant" record would not be guilty of the error of omission, but hey, that would be me.

---

It recorded the flood event. There could well be hurricanes, storms, and fairly natural things that would come as a result, where the new world weather system came into some balance. With all the water evaporating, there must have been lots of rainclouds that were around some places. All we'd have to do is guide the ark round so it was usually getting rained on somewhere in the world!

quote:

---

boat floating for days on end in it's own sewage

---

I think they dumped it out, wouldn't you? maybe the currents were so violent that every time they dumped it, it was out of sight in seconds. Ah, lets sit down for some nice cool rainwater filtered down from the air slits!

quote:

---

However, there are those, unlike yourself, who claim to have scientific explanations for the flood and other things. They claim they are scientific and so should be taught in science class. Those folks we do have arguments with.

---

Perhaps they admit the flood was a miracle, as it must have been to exist at all, and simply don't want so called science used against their children in a malicious, faith ommiting way! Replaced instead by cup o soup creators, ancestral bactetia, and science that says hibernation could not be a process God put into being. In essence, a so called science that rejects what it can't see, and can hardly see past it's nose! In other words a mandatory system of rejecting God, and accepting the lies of the devil in the guise of 'science' these type of folks believers might have arguement with!

quote:

---

Why do you claim that all the ark animals hibernated, but that plate tectonic activity wasn't involved in the great flood experience? Is there some logic behind it?

---

Sliding continents, maybe. Massive movements involving plates, maybe. It's just that the whole pt theory seems designed to prop up old age way of explaining everything. So I don't buy the whole package on that one. Hibernated? I said maybe, I wouldn't be surprised, etc. If there is a God, why wouldn't He do it that way? If not, there would be a lot of hard work for the 8 people on board cleaning up after all those active animals! After all He gathered the critters, why not chose the ones with a good hibernating gizmo?

quote:

---

Using what we've learned through the scientific process we can certainly see far beyond the end of our nose. We see the universe unfold around us with majesty and grandur.

---

A universe devoid of a spiritual part of it. A universe that popped out of a godless cup o soup big bang. A universe as old as granny bacteria took to evolve into handsome men, and gorgeous gals! A universe older than God says it is! A universe of no eternal life, or supernatural! No, that is not seeing much further than one's nose! Even if we look billions of godless lightyears away, it is only measured in pitiful present physical light speed, which is slower than a turtle compare with the spirit reality.

quote:

---

If you believe that the devil has the power to reshape God's creation to make it look different than it actually is then you may have the wrong one of the two in charge.

---

I don't think the old boy can reshape his way out of a paper bag! But he can spin lies, like to Eve, about how God is a liar, etc. We don't have to swallow it though!

quote:

---

If your actual faith rests on a young earth, a flood and instant creation of life then your faith is indeed both weak and threatened by what we have learned.

---

Or visa versa! Your passe false so called science is under seige!

quote:

---

Rant all you want. You can, at best, win small battles temporarily. You do great damage while fighting them to both the education of the young and to what you think of as faith. You will, in the long run, loose because you do not have truth on your side.

---

Nonscense! For someone who does not believe the bible's own account of ages, am I to be lectured by you, of all people, on "truth"? ha. You gotta be kidding!

quote:

---

I hope you realize that to me the hibernation theory comes off a bit "old age way of explaining everything", "So I don't buy the whole package on that one."

---

That was funny!

quote:

---

If there's a God who is loving and omnipotent, why did he decide to make all of the animals NOT on the ark suffer, since I didn't think animals were capable of sin... what about all the human children and babies, born and unborn?

---

If it were not for deciding to save mankind with the flood, we would not be here now! Nor any animals! Babies? God loves em, and doesn't want mothers to kill their children.

quote:

---

God killed a whole heck of a lot of babies with his great flood, didn't he? Why,in order to save mankind?

---

Violence filled the whole earth and men were very very wicked. If they hadn't done it with animals so much, maybe God could've saved the creatures. Yes, again we are getting into a similar period, where, if He didn't take over, man would kill everyone on earth! To preserve the whole experiment,(free will) and demo for the universe, and yes, mankind himself. It was Love Itself that saved us.

torture? He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked! He did what He had to do. There was no destruction of the innocent, but the very wicked. If He was so mean, why would He send His Son to die so horribly for us?
Also, by saving mankind, there is a very happy ending in no more sickness, or death, and even the animals will be able to talk to us.

quote:

---

"He did what He had to do"? Why did He have to do it? and in that way? He's God, isn't He? What is making him "have" to do things?

---

Since man fell in the garden, and started to die, a saviour, a way out, was promised. I won't question Him that He had to destroy man then. I believe He loves us, and it was for our good in the end. Nothing else. Noah kept our race alive, and made it possible to try again, at least long enough for Jesus to come so we could be saved, before man got too wicked again. We now have the way out! He came! Now, when He HAS to interfere, and stop man from killing himself, we can look forward to Heaven.