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Author Topic:   Spotting Beretta's "designer" {Now only 1 summation message per member}
Coyote
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 301 of 315 (477976)
08-10-2008 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Beretta
08-10-2008 9:10 AM


Re: Refuting the model I linked you to
You have not addressed any of the aspects of the model I directed you to.

A few short remarks saying, "Is not!" does not contradict anything. But it seems to be another prime example of creation "science" at work.

Would you care to try again? Did you even watch that on-line lecture, or did you just read the short description I posted?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Beretta, posted 08-10-2008 9:10 AM Beretta has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Beretta, posted 08-11-2008 2:03 AM Coyote has responded

ramoss
Member
Posts: 3123
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 302 of 315 (477986)
08-10-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Beretta
08-09-2008 9:33 AM


Re: Detection of Intelligence
quote:

Who organized the genetic code? It is a code, therefore requires an intelligence to organize amongst millions of potential choices -it is not a purely chemical arrangement that transfers coded messages from one part of a cell to another to make specific arrangements of amino acids into proteins that fold into specific shapes that do specific jobs that coordinate functions that work together to achieve a purpose.
Who organized the message?? Only intelligence can put together a code.

Why do you think the genetic 'code' is actually a code, and not merely complex chemestry?

What evidence do you have with the assertion that 'only intelligence can put togather a code'? How do you demonstrate this ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Beretta, posted 08-09-2008 9:33 AM Beretta has not yet responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12653
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 303 of 315 (477987)
08-10-2008 2:45 PM


Summation Time
This thread has reached 300 posts. Please post your summations now. Only one summation per person.

From this point on, please do not post replies, only summations. The content of replies will be hidden.

I'll leave this thread open a couple more days.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4780
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 304 of 315 (477998)
08-10-2008 6:09 PM


300 posts, plenty of opportunity, time and space, a lot of it wasted on denying evolution instead of evidencing ID.

In total then what we have been presented as the evidence for ID is some unsubstantiated assertions built upon a mound of personal incredulity; nothing of efficacy for the proposition.

The proponents argued in earnest, no doubt to the best of their ability. No credible evidence having been presented I must assume, for the moment, no such evidence exists.


Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 305 of 315 (478015)
08-10-2008 11:54 PM


Observational Trends
Thermodynamic Entropy Trend = Order to Disorder, decay, lifelessness etc.

Intelligent Design Trend = Disorder to Order, design, intelligence, complexity, life sustaining complex systems, etc.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
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Beretta
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 422
From: South Africa
Joined: 10-29-2007


Message 306 of 315 (478017)
08-11-2008 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by Coyote
08-10-2008 11:26 AM


Re: Refuting the model I linked you to
Sorry Coyote -no broadband -can't watch the movie so you'll have to fill me in on how this computer model is better than others I have encountered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Coyote, posted 08-10-2008 11:26 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Coyote, posted 08-11-2008 2:35 AM Beretta has not yet responded

Beretta
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 422
From: South Africa
Joined: 10-29-2007


Message 307 of 315 (478018)
08-11-2008 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by AZPaul3
08-10-2008 6:09 PM


ID
In total then what we have been presented as the evidence for ID is some unsubstantiated assertions built upon a mound of personal incredulity; nothing of efficacy for the proposition.

Or are you not listening? You have not told me how the genetic code is not evidence for intelligence? So I have the evolutionary contention that it could happen without intelligence - but then that's because evolutionist's believe that that's possible, not because it necessarily is. It's no good to say we can't see the creator therefore we can't consider it. Prove that natural causes brought the genetic code forth and I will bow out.

If supernatural possibilities are automatically excluded then there is no falsification possible, no evidence necessary -evolution is the winner in the absence of choice. But is that science?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Reply in the "no replies - single sumary statement only" parts of this topic "hidden".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by AZPaul3, posted 08-10-2008 6:09 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Beretta
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 422
From: South Africa
Joined: 10-29-2007


Message 308 of 315 (478019)
08-11-2008 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Admin
08-10-2008 2:45 PM


Re: Summation Time
Sorry admin -I replied before I saw this message. How do you post a summation rather than a reply? What button does one press instead of 'reply'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Admin, posted 08-10-2008 2:45 PM Admin has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by Adminnemooseus, posted 08-11-2008 2:21 AM Beretta has not yet responded

Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3910
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 309 of 315 (478020)
08-11-2008 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by Beretta
08-11-2008 2:14 AM


Re: Summation Time
Just use the "Gen Reply" button at the bottom of the page.

No replies to this message.

Adminnemooseus

ps: I think I'll add some sort of "sumary message only" to topic title.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Beretta, posted 08-11-2008 2:14 AM Beretta has not yet responded

Coyote
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 310 of 315 (478021)
08-11-2008 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Beretta
08-11-2008 2:03 AM


Summary
Sorry Coyote -no broadband -can't watch the movie so you'll have to fill me in on how this computer model is better than others I have encountered.

So the model you refuted in post #294, you now admit you actually didn't even watch.

This is a fine place to summarize:

You have presented no evidence for ID, you have spent most of your posts dismissing the theory of evolution, and, if this one example is typical, you aren't even familiar with the data.

Creation "science" in a nutshell. All creation and no science. And ID, its illegitimate stepchild, is the same. There is no evidence to support it but it must be right and that evilution stuff must be wrong because we believe.

See you in the next thread, and we'll contend yet again.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Beretta, posted 08-11-2008 2:03 AM Beretta has not yet responded

RickJB
Member (Idle past 3327 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 311 of 315 (478029)
08-11-2008 4:44 AM


I think that this thread makes it quite clear that ID consists of little more than religious apologetics and ToE misrepresentation.

Thanks to all who took part.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Percy, posted 08-11-2008 8:37 AM RickJB has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 19064
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 312 of 315 (478038)
08-11-2008 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by RickJB
08-11-2008 4:44 AM


Summation
What an odd thread, but it highlights just why the creation/evolution debate, or the ID/evolution debate for those who insist on maintaining the charade, just won't go away. People everywhere, not just creationists, almost always refuse to follow the evidence when it goes against what they know is true.

Even so, creationism is a rather extreme example of this behavior. Not only do creationists not follow the evidence where it leads, they don't even recognize the established system for investigating nature, the scientific method. They formulate a hypothesis (the intelligent designer) based upon the appearance of design, then insist that the evidence is sufficient to claim status as theory, skipping all the other steps of the scientific method, like designing experiments to verify the hypothesis, and replication. They prefer a system which includes mechanisms (the supernatural) before they've ever been verified through the scientific method.

What creationists have going for them is the ability to keep the debate alive in the minds of the public, and then turning the debate into a battle for the minds of children. At the heart of this battle is a religion which holds itself up as the one, right and true religion (as do so many), and they justify their efforts as a battle for souls. Their incredible persistance is explained when it is understood that they regard this as a religious crusade where the stakes are salvation itself.

Those who would reach a hopeful conclusion from the utter thrashing ID has taken here where it was revealed the ID emperor is scientifically naked must understand that this battle will never end as long as fundamentalist religion believes its tenets are contradicted by scientific theories. With all eternity at stake the minds of fundamentalists can convince themselves of anything.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 313 of 315 (478075)
08-11-2008 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Buzsaw
08-10-2008 11:54 PM


Re: Observational Trends
Thermodynamic Entropy Trend = Order to Disorder, decay, lifelessness etc.

Intelligent Design Trend = Disorder to Order, design, intelligence, complexity, life sustaining complex systems, etc.

I think that is, inadventently, as good a summation of ID as any: it is a combination of gross scientific ignorance and childish errors in logic.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Buzsaw, posted 08-10-2008 11:54 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

cavediver
Member (Idle past 1980 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 314 of 315 (478077)
08-11-2008 5:10 PM


Time for a change of tack?
As we have all realised - there is little to no evidence for a designer being put forth. Beretta has pushed the idea that observations of life on Earth reveal design, and hence there muct exist a designer. Perhaps it is is time we turned things around. Let us accept for a moment that the appearance of design is indeed the result of very real design. Instead of asking for information regarding this designer, let us infer as much as possible regarding the attributes of this designer from the "design" itself. I have started a new thread, yet to be promoted, which concerns my own thoughts in this regard.

Admin
Director
Posts: 12653
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 315 of 315 (478184)
08-12-2008 5:35 PM


Closing This Thread
Thanks for participating, everyone! :)


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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