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Author Topic:   'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 316 of 479 (563812)
06-06-2010 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by ramoss
06-06-2010 9:08 PM


It is your claim that 'this generation' is define by moral and spiritual condition
Not in all instances did I say length of life was not the implication. Matthew early speaks of 14 generations in three sections in chapter one. Those would be chronological generations for the most part.
I think the phrase "some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until they see ..." is the phrase Jesus used when He emphatically meant His audience at that moment.
And this is the phrase He used in Matthew 16:28.
My focus right now will be with Heretic.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

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 Message 314 by ramoss, posted 06-06-2010 9:08 PM ramoss has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 317 of 479 (563816)
06-06-2010 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by hERICtic
06-06-2010 6:33 PM


Moral generation verses Chronological generation
Heretic,
When the Apostle Paul was writing his epistles was "this generation" (Matthew 24:34) still there or had some chonological boundary been crossed into a new generation ?
This is addressed to Heretic only.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by hERICtic, posted 06-06-2010 6:33 PM hERICtic has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 318 of 479 (563867)
06-07-2010 6:38 AM


Moral generation vs Chronological generation
Heretic,
Perhaps you need some clarification.
Let us assume that if Jesus used a phrase "My generation" He would mean a typical human life span of around 50 or 60 years.
I put aside the supernatural resurrection for the time being. That is a big concession for the Christian. But let us for the moment reason without the resurrection of Christ.
We know that Paul was a young man when he first appears in the book of Acts and that his ministry as a full fledged apostle is matured in say A.D. 59 when he was writing his first letter to the Corinthian church.
When the Apostle Paul was writing his epistles was "this generation" (Matthew 24:34) still Jesus' typical generation or a new generation ?
This is addressed to Heretic only.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 4545 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 319 of 479 (563868)
06-07-2010 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by jaywill
06-06-2010 10:03 PM


Re: Waiting and wading
Jay writes:
My focus right now will be with Eric Heretic.
Jay, if you notice, even though I've told you before, its hERICtic.
See the amusing play on words??? Little "he", then my name, then "tic".
Imagine throwing heretic and Eric in a blender!
This is that pesky context thing you keep ignoring. What Paul wrote is immaterial to what Matthew wrote. They are two seperate authors. This is what we (yeah those who you are debating) keep stating about jumping around, grabbing scripture which has nothing to do with our debate.
We are discussing Matthew 24.
I'll ask again. What are the purpose of the signs?
Thanks.
Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by jaywill, posted 06-06-2010 10:03 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 8:03 AM hERICtic has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 320 of 479 (563883)
06-07-2010 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by hERICtic
06-07-2010 7:04 AM


Moral generation vs Chronological generation
hERICtic,
The question I ask you is absolutely germane to the disussion.
Please look it over again, and propose a reply. You cannot keep saying evidence which does not support your view is "out of context" "jumping ariound" " not the point ".
Was "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 still ongoing in A.D. 59 or was that a new generation ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 7:04 AM hERICtic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 8:35 AM jaywill has replied

  
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 4545 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 321 of 479 (563893)
06-07-2010 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by jaywill
06-07-2010 8:03 AM


Re: Moral generation vs Chronological generation
Obviously the generation Jesus refers to is 59AD.
Now, I answered your question...can you please answer mine.
What are the signs for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 8:03 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 9:26 AM hERICtic has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 322 of 479 (563900)
06-07-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by hERICtic
06-07-2010 8:35 AM


Re: Moral generation vs Chronological generation
Obviously the generation Jesus refers to is 59AD.
Now, I answered your question...can you please answer mine.
What are the signs for?
You are saying that when Paul was a letter writing apostle "this generation" had not yet been followed by a new generation.
Thankyou. Was that hard ?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 8:35 AM hERICtic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 9:36 AM jaywill has replied

  
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 4545 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 323 of 479 (563901)
06-07-2010 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by jaywill
06-07-2010 9:26 AM


Re: Moral generation vs Chronological generation
For the fourth time....
What are the signs for?
Jesus is not Paul. We are discussing the words of Jesus. Again, you do this often. You're bouncing around.
We know through the writings of Paul (which I and others have shown) that he also believed the end times were near.
Which apparently multiple authors believed. NONE wrote anything about the end times being in the far off future. Not one.
Every word used denotes a quick time frame.
Can you please explain where you are trying to go with this?
I'll ask for a fifth time....what are the signs for?
Apparently you are avoiding this question.
Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.
Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 9:26 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 10:10 AM hERICtic has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 324 of 479 (563902)
06-07-2010 9:38 AM


hERICtic,
In 59 AD Jesus, had He lived a non supernatural resurrection life would have been about 60 years old.
59 - 33 = 26 years latter.
Roughly 33 + 26 = 59.
Do you agree ?
You say that that still was "this generation" of Matthew 24:34?
Since generation is a little undefinite let me ask you:
Was it MORE Jesus' generation ?
Or was it MORE Paul's generation ?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 9:40 AM jaywill has replied

  
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 4545 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 325 of 479 (563903)
06-07-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by jaywill
06-07-2010 9:38 AM


I will now ask you for the sixth time....
What are the signs for?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 9:38 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 9:43 AM hERICtic has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 326 of 479 (563904)
06-07-2010 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by hERICtic
06-07-2010 9:40 AM


What are signs for?
What are signs for?
What are signs for?
I think of the signs as indicators, pointers.
Now answer my last question please.
Should we say that 59 AD was more Jesus' generation or more Paul's generation ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 9:40 AM hERICtic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 10:06 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 327 of 479 (563907)
06-07-2010 9:52 AM


Erased. Never mind.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

  
hERICtic
Member (Idle past 4545 days)
Posts: 371
Joined: 08-18-2009


Message 328 of 479 (563912)
06-07-2010 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by jaywill
06-07-2010 9:43 AM


Jay writes:
What are signs for?
What are signs for?
What are signs for?
I think of the signs as indicators, pointers.
For what?
Jay writes:
Now answer my last question please.
Should we say that 59 AD was more Jesus' generation or more Paul's generation ?
Equal. They lived during the same generation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 9:43 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Huntard, posted 06-07-2010 10:12 AM hERICtic has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1969 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 329 of 479 (563913)
06-07-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by hERICtic
06-07-2010 9:36 AM


Re: Moral generation vs Chronological generation
Can you please explain where you are trying to go with this?
Roughly what year, give or take a few, represents the END of "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 9:36 AM hERICtic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 10:14 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 332 by Huntard, posted 06-07-2010 10:19 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2323 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 330 of 479 (563914)
06-07-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by hERICtic
06-07-2010 10:06 AM


hERICtic writes:
Equal. They lived during the same generation.
Would there not also be people that are not part of Jesus' generation, but are part of Paul's?
Of course drawing a line and saying: "This is where the new generation begins", is kinda impossible, there are shades of gray.
Regardless, it's safe to say that everybody from Jesus' generation is now dead, yet he has not yet returned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by hERICtic, posted 06-07-2010 10:06 AM hERICtic has not replied

  
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