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Author Topic:   Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 21 of 232 (841903)
10-23-2018 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
10-22-2018 5:28 PM


Faith writes:

In other words it denies the criteria used by science to argue against the Bible.


Well, yeah, it's pretty easy to "stand against all objections" if you declare all objections inadmissible at the outset. That's setting the bar pretty low.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 10-22-2018 5:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 100 of 232 (842246)
10-28-2018 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
10-27-2018 8:11 PM


Re: Martin Luther told us humans not to compromise scripture with (heliocentric) science.
Faith writes:

... scripture says death didn't enter until the Fall.


No it doesn't.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 10-27-2018 8:11 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 10-28-2018 3:49 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 103 of 232 (842258)
10-28-2018 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
10-28-2018 3:49 PM


Re: Martin Luther told us humans not to compromise scripture with (heliocentric) science.
Faith writes:

yes it does.


No it doesn't. The idea of no death is barely plausible but not supported by the text. The idea of a "fall" is directly contradictory to the text.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 10-28-2018 3:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 10-28-2018 4:09 PM ringo has responded
 Message 137 by Aussie, posted 11-01-2018 1:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 107 of 232 (842267)
10-28-2018 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Faith
10-28-2018 4:09 PM


Re: Martin Luther told us humans not to compromise scripture with (heliocentric) science.
Faith writes:

Death entered with sin, scripture says that.


Funny how you insist on "spiritual" death when Adam and Eve didn't die but you insist on physical death here.

Faith writes:

And the Fall is implicit throughout the Bible.


And it's explicitly false. Becoming more like God is not a fall.

qs writes:

The fact that the Creation will be remade when Jesus returns is evidence.


You're confusing your tenses. Speculation about the future is neither fact nor evidence.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Faith, posted 10-28-2018 4:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Faith, posted 10-29-2018 3:59 AM ringo has responded
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 02-02-2019 4:00 PM ringo has responded
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 02-14-2019 11:52 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 120 of 232 (842311)
10-29-2018 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Faith
10-29-2018 3:59 AM


Re: The Fall
Faith writes:

Here's the Westminster Confession of Faith on the Fall:


Here's the Bible on the "fall":
quote:
Genesis 3:22-23 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
1. They became like God.
2. They hadn't eaten from the Tree of Life.

Edited by ringo, : Corrected Bible reference.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Faith, posted 10-29-2018 3:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 135 of 232 (842463)
11-01-2018 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
10-27-2018 3:09 PM


Re: Discussing Bible contradictions to examine Bible Inerrancy
Faith writes:

I don't say the KJV is inerrant, it's a translation, translations aren't inerrant.


The translations are all we have. If some spooky "original" that we don't have is inerrant, so what?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 10-27-2018 3:09 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(2)
Message 145 of 232 (842514)
11-02-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
11-01-2018 3:15 PM


Re: Martin Luther told us humans not to compromise scripture with (heliocentric) science.
Faith writes:

... animals only became food for humans after the Flood....


Then why did Abel sacrifice meat?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 11-01-2018 3:15 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 146 of 232 (842515)
11-02-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Aussie
11-01-2018 1:58 PM


Re: Martin Luther told us humans not to compromise scripture with (heliocentric) science.
Aussie writes:

You have to go to the book of Romans, chapter 5 to find it though. In the passage the author is comparing Adam's legacy to that of Jesus. " Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned..."


According to the story, Adam was the first man so yes, he did "bring sin into the world." How else would it begin? And yes, he did "bring death into the world" - for humans. That's a simple mathematical necessity, not a basis for doctrine.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Aussie, posted 11-01-2018 1:58 PM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Aussie, posted 11-02-2018 12:59 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 166 of 232 (842867)
11-09-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Faith
11-08-2018 6:00 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
Faith writes:

quote:
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

abe: Oh and it's a really big mistake to pit Jesus against the Old Testament since He IS the God of the Old Testament incarnate


Your quote is bracketed before and after by the Old Testament and the New Testament:
quote:
Genesis 4:15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
God Himself specifically forbade killing the first murderer.
quote:
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And Jesus pointed out that even IF murderers deserve to die, none of us is qualified to kill them. (There's that pesky, "Judge not lest ye be judged," thing again.)

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Faith, posted 11-08-2018 6:00 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 11:24 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(4)
Message 169 of 232 (847851)
01-28-2019 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by GDR
01-27-2019 11:24 PM


Re: Replying to several of your messages...
GDR writes:

As a society we have rightly judged murder to be wrong.


And you can't affirm the value of human life by killing people.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by GDR, posted 01-27-2019 11:24 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by GDR, posted 01-28-2019 11:46 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 197 of 232 (848009)
01-30-2019 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
01-29-2019 4:29 PM


Re: death penalty.
Faith writes:

Doing away with the death penalty because of human error is not the right solution.


quote:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Which is why the Biblical standard is:
quote:
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Nobody is qualified to cast the stone.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 198 of 232 (848010)
01-30-2019 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Faith
01-29-2019 9:56 PM


Re: death penalty.
Faith writes:

... I'm arguing from my years of learning God's judgments.


My father used to say of people who were particularly stupid that they, "learned nothing and forgot nothing."

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Faith, posted 01-29-2019 9:56 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(2)
Message 205 of 232 (848176)
02-01-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
02-01-2019 1:04 AM


Re: Tenets of the faith
Faith writes:

"Let your yes be yes and your no be no. All else is of the devil" said Jesus.


I couldn't resist:
quote:
Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
The context is (verses 34-36) about swearing oaths, so you'd better throw out your Oath of Allegiance.

And the VERY next verse is:

quote:
Matthew 5:38-39 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
which you're comfortable ignoring.

Faith writes:

They do happen to be standard orthodox beliefs that can be answered that simply.


Are you aware that EVERY religion on earth has orthodox beliefs? So almost all orthodoxy is wrong.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 1:04 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 208 of 232 (848321)
02-03-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
02-02-2019 4:00 PM


Re: The Road Not Taken
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Becoming more like God is not a fall.


Satans whole error, in reality, was imagining that he could.

You work hard at forgetting, don't you? It Was GOD who said that Adam and Eve DID become more like Him. Satan has nothing to do with it.

Phat writes:

You are forever like a smart alec 14-year-old challenging the status quo.


But I'm not the one who is challenging the Bible. You are.

Phat writes:

Nowadays, you think you have grown up and have science and evidence on your side, but all you have proven is that your opponents have no evidence to bring to the table.


Evidence has nothing to do with this case. You are flatly denying what the Bible plainly says: Adam and Eve DID become more like God. That can not be a "fall".

Phat writes:

You and I took different paths. I took the road marked Belief.
You took the road marked Evidence.


In this case, the evidence is the Bible itself. You're denying the Book on which your belief is based. You're breaking your own circle.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 02-02-2019 4:00 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:20 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18494
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 210 of 232 (848343)
02-03-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
02-03-2019 4:20 PM


Re: The Road Not Taken
Phat writes:

We can agree that the evidence is expressed in words. We just don't agree with what evidence we are talking about, the source of such evidence, and the implications of modern evidence, primitive superstition, and the wisdom spoken in the words expressed.


You don't get your own private evidence. Evidence is what everybody agrees on.

If we have a dead body with a hole in the chest, it is evident that it is dead: there are no vital signs, it is at room temperature, etc. The hole in the chest is also evident to everybody. What is NOT evident is: what caused the hole, whether the hole was the cause of death, etc.

In the case that you're trying to weasel out of, it is evident that the Bible says, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us...."

GOD SAID IT. Do you deny that? Is that not evident to you?


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:20 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:55 PM ringo has responded
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 02-04-2019 2:48 AM ringo has responded

  
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