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Author Topic:   The War in Europe
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 616 of 1124 (893359)
04-07-2022 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals
04-07-2022 5:39 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
How positive are we that we can take out ALL of the Russian Boomers before responding on land?

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 04-07-2022 5:39 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 619 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2022 9:00 PM jar has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8563
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 617 of 1124 (893361)
04-07-2022 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals
04-07-2022 5:39 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
What would/should be the West's response?
Wow. No idea.
Do nothing and let him pop another.
NATO pops one, similar target, similar yield.
Incinerate Moscow.
What else?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 04-07-2022 5:39 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 618 of 1124 (893362)
04-07-2022 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals
04-07-2022 5:39 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
I have no idea but I fear we are close to finding out. Not responding decisively is not an option.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 04-07-2022 5:39 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by ringo, posted 04-08-2022 11:45 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 619 of 1124 (893363)
04-07-2022 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 616 by jar
04-07-2022 7:14 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
How positive are we that we can take out ALL of the Russian Boomers before responding on land?
It seems highly unlikely to me that we can take out any Russian nukes. U.S weapon systems are notorious for malfunctions as the electronic sophistication increases. There is a reason the Webb Space Telescope has functioned flawlessly. Ten billion dollars and 20 years planning and hand building it. Testing every single component thousands of times.
No one (that can do anything) on the planet is interested in saving everything we care about from nuclear anhelation. Reagan started selling that myth (Star Wars, a fictional program designed after a fiction story) in the 80s and the republicans have carried the ball ever since all the while whittling away at any inspectors and regulations to ensure the U.S. military gets what it's paying for.
ABE: I also wanted to mention the serious breaches of security at the Pentagon in 2015 and then for an undetected long term intrusion during Trump.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 616 by jar, posted 04-07-2022 7:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by jar, posted 04-08-2022 8:15 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 620 of 1124 (893365)
04-08-2022 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 619 by Tanypteryx
04-07-2022 9:00 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
Exactly.
If the Russians decide to use any nuclear weapons the only possible response we could make that is not suicidal is to respond only with conventional weapons.
And even that might well be suicidal.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-07-2022 9:00 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 621 of 1124 (893367)
04-08-2022 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 618 by Theodoric
04-07-2022 8:57 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
Theodoric writes:
Not responding decisively is not an option.
I'd say the opposite - not responding decisively is the only option. It's what our governments do.
"Support for Ukraine" is mostly lip-service. In the end, Ukraine is not as important to us as our own security. We won't do anything risky.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2022 8:57 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by Theodoric, posted 04-08-2022 1:51 PM ringo has replied
 Message 625 by Phat, posted 04-09-2022 12:28 PM ringo has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 622 of 1124 (893368)
04-08-2022 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by ringo
04-08-2022 11:45 AM


Opinion of a General
Retired General Wesley Clark thinks we either face the devil now or face him later in a much worse situation.
quote:
On the other hand, halfhearted pledges, bickering and slow deliveries of heavy weaponry expose Ukraine to defeat — first in the east, and then the conflict will return to Kyiv and Odessa. Putin’s ambitions have no bounds. China will be encouraged in planning a military takeover of Taiwan. The Baltics will tremble. The United States and NATO allies will face agonizing budget decisions to return to Cold War levels of defense spending...
But to lead, the Biden administration must recalibrate its own strategy. Ukraine is not a distraction from its long-term alignment to deter and thwart China. Rather, Ukraine is the key to strengthening trans-Atlantic unity, assuring greater stability in Europe and dissuading bloated Chinese ambitions.
Strengthening Ukraine — giving it the tools it needs to secure its own territory — must be the first order of business for the United States and our NATO allies. If we seek to avoid World War III, this is the moment to arm Ukraine.
The time to arm Ukraine is right now: Crucial window for Kyiv and the world

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by ringo, posted 04-08-2022 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 623 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-08-2022 2:46 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 624 by ringo, posted 04-09-2022 11:43 AM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 628 by Percy, posted 04-10-2022 8:03 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 623 of 1124 (893369)
04-08-2022 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 622 by Theodoric
04-08-2022 1:51 PM


Re: Opinion of a General
Retired General Wesley Clark thinks we either face the devil now or face him later in a much worse situation.
I remember listening to him talking about international relations and military stuff and to me, he always seemed rational and reasonable. Look at the world and this situation the way it really is right now, not as some delusional nutjobs want to pretend it is.
I sure don't envy any of the final decision makers in these perilous times, and I continue to be puzzled why anyone would seek those positions.
On a brighter note, I saw on this morning's news that humans are being impregnated by aliens.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Theodoric, posted 04-08-2022 1:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 624 of 1124 (893376)
04-09-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 622 by Theodoric
04-08-2022 1:51 PM


Re: Opinion of a General
Theodoric writes:
Retired General Wesley Clark thinks we either face the devil now or face him later in a much worse situation.
That's what they said in 1936 and 1938. We wound up facing the devil from 1939 to 1945 (that's 1941 to 1945 to you).
But there was another string of devils lined up behind him.
General Wesley Clark writes:
Strengthening Ukraine — giving it the tools it needs to secure its own territory — must be the first order of business for the United States and our NATO allies.
But it won't be. We know that, don't we?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Theodoric, posted 04-08-2022 1:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Percy, posted 04-10-2022 9:04 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 625 of 1124 (893381)
04-09-2022 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 621 by ringo
04-08-2022 11:45 AM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
ringo writes:
In the end, Ukraine is not as important to us as our own security. We won't do anything risky.
This is why most Christians would never give it all up. We are as human as you and the rest of the governments. Quit trying to preach us into a corner and expect us to do what you won't do.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by ringo, posted 04-08-2022 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 626 by Theodoric, posted 04-09-2022 12:37 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 627 by ringo, posted 04-09-2022 12:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 626 of 1124 (893383)
04-09-2022 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by Phat
04-09-2022 12:28 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
Why is everything about christian "persecution" to you? The only people persecuting christians seem to be other christians.
Edited by Theodoric, : Punctuation

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by Phat, posted 04-09-2022 12:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 627 of 1124 (893386)
04-09-2022 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 625 by Phat
04-09-2022 12:28 PM


Re: What if Eleanor Roosevelt ...
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
In the end, Ukraine is not as important to us as our own security. We won't do anything risky.
This is why most Christians would never give it all up. We are as human as you and the rest of the governments.
You're not supposed to be. You're supposed to be separate from "the world". Your faith in God is supposed to raise you above the weaknesses of us heathens.
Otherwise, what's the point of Christianity? Just saving your own skin from your own God's wrath?
It's funny how you brag about your "changed life" when it suits you and also fall back on being "only human" when it suits you.
Phat writes:
Quit trying to preach us into a corner and expect us to do what you won't do.
You keep confusing me with Jesus. I just look like Him. I wasn't even born in a barn.
It was Jesus who told you to give everything up and follow Him. He didn't tell me because He doesn't exist.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 625 by Phat, posted 04-09-2022 12:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22504
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 628 of 1124 (893393)
04-10-2022 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 622 by Theodoric
04-08-2022 1:51 PM


Re: Opinion of a General
I've been saying this for over a month. Ukraine is essential to the safety and security of western democracy - we cannot let it fall or be divided. The Russian military is not a clown car. NATO is not some invincible force that could roll over Russia if provoked. Not keeping Ukraine free and whole will inform China's behavior as it seeks to reabsorb Taiwan.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Theodoric, posted 04-08-2022 1:51 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22504
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 629 of 1124 (893394)
04-10-2022 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 624 by ringo
04-09-2022 11:43 AM


Re: Opinion of a General
ringo writes:
Theodoric writes:
Retired General Wesley Clark thinks we either face the devil now or face him later in a much worse situation.
That's what they said in 1936 and 1938. We wound up facing the devil from 1939 to 1945 (that's 1941 to 1945 to you).
I've been likening recent events to those leading up to WWII for a month now, including about the appeasers. The limp aid western democracies are providing to Ukraine is like fighting with one hand tied behind our back, fearful that bringing out the other hand will provoke the Russian bear. If we don't want eastern Europe to devolve back into the evil empire then we had better become seriously involved.
Just as Franklin Roosevelt had to let time and circumstances convince the American people that Europe's war was our war too, something has to somehow convince the Biden administration that Russia's invasion of Ukraine is also our war. If Ukraine falls we'll regret it, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of our life.
That means a heap more military (and humanitarian) aid, and US and NATO men and materiel on the ground in Ukraine.
--Percy
PS: Hey, how about those sanctions, huh! If someone tells me I'm beating a dead horse about the ineffectiveness of the sanctions I'll stop, but until then I'll keep sounding the alarm. One significant indication of the ineffectiveness of our sanctions is that we left 200 Russian banks unsanctioned, more than enough to conduct business with the rest of the world, some of whose largest economies like China, India, Brazil, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia (all in the top 20) are, to varying degrees, ignoring the sanctions and/or continuing to seek out business with Russia.
Plus the sanctions are as leaky as a colander. Take the sanctions on military technology. In no time those Russian jets will be grounded because they can't get chips for replacement parts. Except western chip manufacturers still want to sell their chips. Hey, what luck, Brazil will buy our chips. Yes, they promise they're not selling them to Russia, and they also have a bridge they want to sell you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by ringo, posted 04-09-2022 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by ringo, posted 04-10-2022 2:11 PM Percy has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 630 of 1124 (893399)
04-10-2022 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by Percy
04-10-2022 9:04 AM


Re: Opinion of a General
Percy writes:
I've been likening recent events to those leading up to WWII for a month now, including about the appeasers.
I'm thinking that Putin's attack on Ukraine may be less like Hitler's attacks on Poland and France and more like Stalin's attack on Finland.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Percy, posted 04-10-2022 9:04 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by Percy, posted 04-11-2022 8:21 AM ringo has replied

  
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