YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.

quote:

---

I thought the rock was where Mohammed ascended into heaven, somthing like he climbed a ladder? (im not sure) Mohammed had many wives, and I heard he had a 12 or 13 yr old wife?

---

Mohammed is believed by Muslims to have ascended into the heaven from the Dome Of The Rock, Muslim temple on the Temple Mount at Jerusalem.One of his ten or so wives, Aiesha, became his wife as a young girl and the marriage was consumated when she was nine years old. She became his favorite wife.

quote:

---

Hey buz, any comments on my posts?

---

You're post is enough off topic, Holmes, that I'm sure admins would prefer they be addressed elsewhere. Likely they have been. All I can say is that you have all Christians in the same barrel there and some of the doctrines you've aluded to are not believed by all Christians as you have them stated there, such as the way communion works, and so forth.

quote:

---

1)Your point #4 reproduced above is not a "factual statement". It is an unsupported assertion.

---

Ok, Amlodhi, it sounds like you speak with authority. Teach me, please, as to where I've been missreading my Biblical history of Israel and Judah all these years. I've had it that after the Babylonian exile, they had one short lived time of mediocre revival and pretty much went downhill and into obscurity from then on with the norther tribes (Israel) dispersing and Judah delving in to much of the idolatry that did Israel in. Then as Jesus and the prophets prophesied, Judah became dispersed all over the planet. The prophets all warned them it would be so and indeed it was. Where'm I goin wrong here with my history?

quote:

---

2)Why would you consider my comment an insulting inuendo? You did use the prejudicial terms "paranoia" and "groundless superstition" in regard to Jewish religious practices; didn't you?

​

You would not, then, consider me to be prejudiced if I were to say that you only practice the tenets of your religion because of your "paranoia" and that your religious practices are based on "groundless superstition"?

​

Or would your own words, aimed back at yourself, have more of a sting?

---

Ok, ok. Paranoia was not the right word. It's gona be hard to apologize to all those deceased Israelites and Jews for that, but I stand corrected. Imo, they did become somewhat superstitious about using the name after all the centuries when it was ok.No, go ahead and assess/critique my religion till your heart's content. Only please remember. I'm not RCC or liberal protestant. I'm a Biblical fundamentalist. Big, big difference. If you base your allegations on no more substantive stuff I'm reading here, it'll amount to little anyhow. Lol. I've been called about everything in the book since coming to town anyhow, and one's skin thickens accordingly, as doggy's hide does in the winter to withstand the storms.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-10-2003]

quote:

---

There has been no support given for the assertion that it was a "falling away" from God that precipitated the disuse of the Name.

---

When they were obedient and in good standing with their god they wrote and spoke the name of him as evidently directed, for he raised no objection. Their scribes and priests were very meticulous in keeping and writing every letter, jot and tittle when copying scriptures. If I'm not mistaken, I believe thay did wash their hands before writing the name on scrolls as a symbolic show of reverence for the name. But to forbid the name to be written or spoken would have gone against the rule they formerly abode by of keeping everything as written.

Amlodi, you're right. I wasn't thinking. However, after Cyrus ordered the temple to be repaired in the 5th century until and after Artaxerxes, King of Babylon allowed Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem the temple worship was somewhat intact and my understanding it was after this time of a measure of revival that not much was going on in the southern kingdom all the way down to after Christ when they were destroyed and scattered. It was these last three or four centuries that the name became unspoken, from what I can determine.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-15-2003]

quote:

---

That may be the claim, but it would be a very difficult thing to do. it would virtually impossible for us to know if they succeeded. Then, it is obvious by the time of the Qumram colony that things were not copied exactly-- there were multiple variants. All the texts we have are after this period, so we can't really know what is a exact copy or not.

---

When copying scripture, the scribes were required to copy a letter at a time, looking at the text and copying by the letter, not the whole word. This is how careful they were to get it right.

quote:

---

It is in the latter books that the frequency of the name decreases, and then disappears. This isn't re-editting of the ancient texts, but simply not using the name in the first place.

---

To which books are you referring? Haggai, Zephaniah, and Zechariah were written in the 4th century and Malachai in the 3rd. They all used the name, indicating that even in these centuries the men of God used the name. The New Testament doesn't use it at all, and for a reason. Jesus taught the desciples to call Jehovah Father as in the Lord's Prayer. He elaborated more on it in texts like John 14 to 16 where he said things like, "you shall no longer ask me anything, but what you ask the Father in my name he will give you." This is because of the new thing of being spriritually born, i.e. born again of God's spirit, allowing Christians to be called the children of God.------------------

quote:

---

Certain passages of the Quran read as if the Jews and Christians have nothing to fear on judgement day.

---

But the Quranic scripture you cited included the stipulation that these must believe in the Quranic Allah, which does not equate to the Christian/Jewish god, Jehovah.

quote:

---

As I've mentioned before, the word "allah" is derrived form the same root as "eloah", one of the biblical names for God.

---

Elohim (Hebrew for god) of the Bible is not a proper name or one of the names for God, perse. It is the Hebrew word for god and is a generic word (not a proper name) for any god, including the god of the Bible, Jehovah/Yahweh.The problem with saying Allah (proper name) of the Quran is same as elohim of the Bible is that in the Quran it is the only name for the Muslim god and the real propher name for Jehovah of the Bible isn't even in the Quran. The word god/allah in the Quran was transformed by an Arab pagan worshiper, Muhammed into the propher name of his god. He then forced all the other pagans to worship his god, Allah. An Arab would also have no other word to use in reference to a pagan god, but the word, "allah" because that's their word by definition which means a god. I've checked that out with a translator and as well, an Indonesian Muslim earlier a few months ago on one of these forums verified that to be the case. As I've said before again and again, the name of the Biblical god is not god/allah/elohim. It is YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah.

Islamic leaders teach that Allah is the god also of the Bible, but:1. Bibles aren't allowed in most Muslim fundie nations.
2. They don't recognize the Biblical god/elohim Jehovah. They only recognize Allah and that's all they are allowed to recognize.Bottom line is that they want everyone to believe they are the same god so as to not disuade people in Christian lands from becoming Muslims.

quote:

---

I guess you've managed to forget that even your own sources don't even agree that "Allah" is a name, rather than a title.
And the fact that the Quran was - according to Muhammad and Islam - announced by Gabriel is strong confirmation of the Judeo-Christian links.

​

The evidence is against you.

---

Paulk if you would bother to reread my own sources in this thread, you'll find that I have changed nothing. I did in fact explain how Allah (higher case) was the Arabic proper name for the Islamic god of Muhammed and allah(lower case) was the Arabic generic word for other gods.

​

1. Very early on in post *2 of this thread I explained this carefully.

​

2. In post #23 of this thread our Muslim Indonesian cyberfriend, Andya Primanda corroberated my statements

​

3. Then in post #28 I profusely thanked him for clarifying and making my point.

​

As for the Biblical stuff in the Quran, Muhammed did a lot of what Joseph Smith did in the Book of Mormon. He laced his book of his own doctrines with Biblical stuff so as to relate it with the Bible and lend it credence, except that Muhammed got more of the Biblical stuff more mixed up more than even Joseph Smith did.

​

[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-03-2003]

quote:

---

What Andya said is :
"'Allah' in literal Arabic is translated as just 'God'. Not a specific name like Andya or John or buz"

​

So Andya did NOT confirm your assertion that "Allah" is a proper name. He explicitly denied it.

---

Yah, PaulK, you're right in that I forgot that the lower case was ilaha (similar) but not same as Allah. He did confirm that the name Allah and the word alaha have the same meaning, except that one is the lower case and the other the higher.He also confirmed that the meaning of the Muslim god, Allah is not the same as the meaning of the Biblical god, Jehovah, because the meaning of Jehovah is 'the existing one' or 'the I am,' and not simply 'god.'

Abshalom, it was just as easy to fill in the vowels for the name YHWH as it is for any other Hebrew word. Are you forgetting that none of the Hebrew words have vowels in them? The pronunciation of the consonents determines what vowels to use when translating, do they not? The name is in the earlier Jewish scriptures to be read and was read by them.The name Allah can be attributed to any god so far as the Bible goes, because the Bible uses the the word elohim in reference to pagan gods as well as the Biblical god, Jehovah. You and Paulk seem to evade my factual point that Jehovah's name is not elohim. Elohim's name is Jehovah. I am a man as Jehovah is a god/elohim. How can you not see this?

quote:

---

Oh it's quite simple really. This thread is all about Buzsaw repeating ant-Islamic propaganda claimign that Allau is "really" a pagan moon-godwith no connection to the Christian deity, while I (and others) point out the facts...

---

So I misspronounced the lower case allah. That in no way nullifies all the other factual input I've given in this thread, none of which you've sensibly refuted. Correct me if I'm wrong with documentation, please PaulK.

Well then, what is the name of the Muslim god? Is it Jehovah, same as the Jew/Christain or what is it. You tell me.

1. On the basis that this name is unique to the god/elohim/allah of the Bible. It is not claimed or ever used in reference for any god but the god of the Bible.2. On the other hand, the words lord/adonai can not only refer to any god, but to any master, either human or deity. Also the word god/elohim/allah is and can be attributed to any of the thousands of gods people worship.3. The word is used in most of the books of the OT in such a manner as to indicate it is his proper name and exclusively his.3. In order to become a Muslim it is necessary to declare that Allah, (not Jehovah) is god and that Muhammed is his his prophet.3. Most of the writers of the OT had no problem with using the name YHWH/Yaweh/Jehovah in the text so as for it to be read and spoken.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-10-2003]