What is God’s Heaven or plan at the end? Would you like it?

Crashfrog and Bailey! Both of you stop it this instant or you will go to bed without supper! The Forum Guidelines need to be followed!

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I must admit that I did have trouble understanding what he was trying to say. However, compared to some of McFall's posts, Bailey's seem like a walk in a mosquito infested park on a hot and sticky day.I think the problem here people try too hard to treat this like we're in some kind of poetry class. I think the problem would be solved if we try to write more like how we talk. I certainly can't imagine McFall or Bailey talk the way they write.

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Disclaimer:

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Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

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He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

I think that the truth we are speaking of here is more of an infinite truth. Laws that transcend time.
To my children the truth I give them today will likely be the truth that they find later if mine is well thought out.
The same applies to any parent.I don't see how a truth today will become a falsehood tomorrow. Some facts will and some will be added to but most will hold true.
An example on your contention will be needed to change my thinking on this. Make it a good one.I think that there is some flexibility to God's plan , whatever it be. I do not see God as an all knowing stagnant God. There is room for surprise in His reality as well as ours. This enhances life and is pleasing.Regards
DL

This is very pretty, GIA, but you have yet to address the point I made: that your 'perfect universe' remains a fiat of your own definition.Introducing 'the uncertainty principle' just blows the whistle on your own game. It's a puff of fog that lets you have your perfection and imperfection both at once, just as others do. You may then wait for a certain God to bring certainty just as others wait for a perfect God to bring perfection.In both cases, people seek completion of what now seems partial. It's the same idea. Observe.GIA:

The only clear consensus I see is Christians, waiting for a God who by definition is Perfect, and can only create Perfect universes, to return to fix what ain't broke.

GIA paraphrased (replacing 'perfect' with 'certain'):

The only clear consensus I see is Christians, waiting for a God who by definition is Certain, and can only create Certain universes, to return to fix what ain't broke.

Six of one and half a dozen. You might as well argue:

This reality that a god would have to see as Certain, if He was a God of merit, would need to include things like the imperfection principle to keep something for future generations to occupy their time.

You will have said as much.___Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

Children say the darnedest things. Regardless of what the scriptures say, the world is definitely out of sorts. We can observe our own inherent awareness where even innocent children can demonstrate the ability to differentiates what our hearts and minds seek in contrast to the state of things.Mankind has lost it's balance, and it has been written that it will be restored. Until someone can prove otherwise, I believe it to be true.

I see and accept the symbolism of God as Father, but as to what responsibility this Father has versus the responsibility of His spiritual offspring, I'm uncertain.

Daddy, why is there sickness? To say that sickness is the result of "The Fall" seems too simplistic. I have Type II diabetes, and it is a terrible disease, but I don't blame it on any devil nor on God..simply because He is the Creator. It appears to be simply a challenge that I must come to terms with.

Daddy, why are all those people starving? Could it be that starvation could actually be eliminated if the world learned how to share? I also think this too simplistic, as human nature is never entirely evil nor entirely altruistic. Quite seriously, how many Americans would be willing to give up 50% of their resources to help the world live?

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Pbee writes:

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Mankind has lost it's balance, and it has been written that it will be restored. Until someone can prove otherwise, I believe it to be true.

Perhaps the question is whether we are capable of self correction or whether we truly need to be restored.

Whose fault is that? If you believe your background is relevant, then you should be taking steps to communicate that background in a concise and readable way, rather than using the forum to see how much self-important nonsense you can cram into a post. Oh, I doubt that very much. There's nothing wrong with you except for your monstrous ego, and a bad habit of assuming that intelligent writing means writing that no one can understand. One out of three. Yes, we're sarcastic sometimes. It's the internet. You'll just have to grow up about it.Some people here are actually experts in the field of biology. It may seem like arrogance when they communicate their expertise to laypeople, but it's not. And the use of technical language to communicate technical concepts is not obfuscatory; it's a necessary part of communicating scientific ideas. It can't be helped.When we're talking about evolution, we're talking about things that are sometimes so far outside the common scope of experience that special words and terms are needed to describe them. It's hardly obfuscatory to do so. And it does mean that people who want to talk about evolution are going to have to do a little homework first, and acquaint themselves with the terminology and concepts of the field.All that, of course, is a far cry from what you've been doing, when you've been using florid prose and tangled metaphors to conceal a complete lack of meaningful content in your posts. So, take your own advice. Be good. Don't try to palm off nonsense on us and pretend like it's Shakespeare. We can tell the difference, I assure you. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

I have said that Perfection must be fluid if it is to allow a God to return at any time and find things in the Perfect way it was left.
The imperfections that we see would only be what evils have been allowed to balance our world in the way God wants. He after all is the giver of the tree of good and evil.I have indicated elsewhere that God is not omniscience and all knowing for eternity.
How boring this would be for any God. Unless He has found another way around this boredom then He would have allowed for surprises now and again. He too must be kept interested in life if He is to share it with the universe.I don't know if certain is a good replacement for Perfect. I don't think so because it adds certainty to a process that is uncertain unless omniscience is in play. It is not.Regards
DL

Not downgrading the woes that you mention.I believe that a balance is always in play.
This does not mean that we cannot end the woes.
For evil to grow, all good men need do is nothing.Regards
DL Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

That's not my point at all. I'm talking about the transmission of truth from one generation to the next, not the "truth value" of that truth. We can transmit facts, like state capitals, and we can transmit skills, like driving.But we can't transmit curiosity or empathy or generosity. We can only hope that our children pick up those qualities somehow, from us or from somebody else. Exactly. They may find it later for themselves, but they don't "learn" it from you. The best you can do is be an example. I'm not trying to change your thinking. I'm trying to show the lurkers that your thinking is not well thought out. My point, once more, is that God could tell us His plan in great detail without robbing the next generations of their oppurtunity to learn it. No matter how clearly any of us thinks he understands God's plan, it isn't possible to communicate that understanding infallibly. You demonstrate that with every post.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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Topic: What is God’s Heaven or plan at the end? Would you like it?Read the book! It tells you all about it. In fact it's even written by God Himself! (I am speaking of the Bible, as no other religious books have a perfect case for faith)Yes, I will like it. Some will not.

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I think the problem here people try too hard to treat this like we're in some kind of poetry class. I think the problem would be solved if we try to write more like how we talk. I certainly can't imagine McFall or Bailey talk the way they write.

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Exactly, which is pretty much what I requested of Bailey. Less flowery prose and more plain English.I received in return, as crashfrog put it, "smug superiority". Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Read the book! It tells you all about it. In fact it's even written by God Himself! (I am speaking of the Bible, as no other religious books have a perfect case for faith)

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Which Bible?

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I hope I haven’t pissed you and nator off past the point of reconciliation. I’d hate to lose any of you folks. And I’m not kidding.

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It takes an awful lot more than this little display to piss me off.If you must know, very few posts here at EvC have much effect upon my emotions.You, whom I have only seen here for a day or two, only replied to a few times, and who's posts I still don't understand in the least, have really no effect on me at all. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

What is it about god's heaven that you would like?