Let me just say this, I think you are an awesome person, because of the time you have spent writting letters to me. Your paitience is obvious, and I hope that it all comes from Love, as it would from me.
I also do not think any less of you for being a Jehovah withness, but I am starting to think that Jehovah witnesses may think that of other Christian religions. This to me seems wrong, and to go against Jesus's teachings. I don't think that following a religiong is nearly as important as following Christ, for religion was created by man and run by man. We all can have an intimate relationship with God regardless of our religion.
Remember none of can really translate the original bible as it is a lost language. So when you think that the Jehovah withness has the "berst" translation, it still could be slightly off.
John 17:20-23 to me means to be united with him through his spirit, not some church.
He compared his union with the father, and said we should have the same union. That's a spiritual union, not a religious one.
When he talks about giving us the glory, he means the Holy Spirit, which anyone can have if they so choose. You don't need a religion for that. Anyone that I have met, who has experienced the Holy Spirit, seem to feel the same way. We are united as one, because we are lead by the same spirit, not some church.
It would be very hard to fracture that bond, that spiritual bond. Its only when we start thinking of this world to we start to split up into groups. When we are lead by the spirit, we remain united. It only takes one person in your religion to start thinking of this world, and then he can mess the whole thing up for everyone.
The church I go to is emphatic about being a spirit lead church. This does not mean that everyone there is spirit lead. It's still a church with human beings in it. The devil also goes to church every Sunday, praising God.
(Hebrews 10:24-25) "And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near." and Jesus said. (Matthew 18:20) "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst." (Matthew 16:18) "I will build my congregation, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."
Jesus did not reply to Hebrews 10:24-25 with Matthew 18:20. you made it seem that way.
Matthew 16:18 Jesus was talking to Peter, so if you believe that, then whatever religion stemed from Peter would be the true religion.
The bible I read has Matthew 16:18 as this:
18And I tell you that you are Peter,[3] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[4] will not overcome it.[5] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[6] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[7] loosed in heaven."
So before that he was saying:
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[2] the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven
So they were talking about the revelation the father gave Peter. It is from that revalation "rock" that you build a church from.
The scriptures are clear, True Christians are to be one, and to be one, we must be an active part of True Christianity. If we were to refuse to follow Christ's wishes that his followers be one, could we expect him to be with us? To be a follower of Christ, we have to follow him.
This to me is very interesting, how you said that. Because it seems to reflect exactly what I am saying. The only problem is that you feel the "True Christianity" is Jehovah withness, not the Holy Spirit.
Jesus spoke of this:
Acts
4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with[1] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
and followed it with:
8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
This to me is very clear and in context. If I recieve the Holy Spirit, I can be Jesus's witness to the ends of the earth.
How awesome is that? And we don't need a church to do that.
Even after many translations of the bible, you can still recieve God's word through a "bad" translation and then be a True Christian.
Ture Christianity lies in your heart, not some religion.
John 3:16 tells us "that everyone exercising faith" would be saved, but do you know what that means? To save us, our faith needs to be an active living faith which means it changes how we think and act, it can't be a mere acknowledgement of fact or acceptance. (James 2:14-17) "Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, yet a certain one of YOU says to them: "Go in peace, keep warm and well fed," but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it? Thus, too, faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself." What James was saying is that a dead faith that doesn't cause us to live by it, can't save us, our faith has to motivate us to follow Christ's example in our lives to be of any benefit. So contrary to what many think, just believing is not enough, we need to 'exercise faith' which would include activity pursuing christian activities including gathering ourselves together into the one body of Christ's True followers.
I agree with this whole heartedly.
I will add this too:
Romans
Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[ 8:1 Some later manuscripts Jesus, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit,]
Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
No condemnation for those who are in Christ.
You do not need to be a Jehovah witness to be in Christ.
As far as gathering goes, there is more power when 2 or more gather, but it is not required. If no one else on earth believed in Christ, it would be hard to fulfill that directive. Then according to that way of thinking, you couldn't be in Christ?
So it is not required, but most people who believe look to gather with others.
I Love my church and the rules of religion that it follows, but it doesn't make me any more of a true Christian, than a spirit filled bumb on the street. He might have a better chance of getting into heaven than me.
God Bless.
™ Version 4.2
