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Author Topic:   dinosaur and human co-existence
PaulK
Member
Posts: 10954
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 241 of 271 (560897)
05-18-2010 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Buzsaw
05-18-2010 12:01 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
quote:

Percy, throughout the years here at EvC, I've presented corroborating evidence such as fulfilled prophecy and other data which convinces me that the Biblical record is a reliable premise for my world view.

If there is any truth in that, it is because you know in your heart that your pre-conceived "world-view" is wrong and are desperately trying to convince yourself - and leaving honest inquiry far behind. It is quite obvious that your arguments are made to prop up an existing belief, because of the strong bias required to believe them. As has been seen they fall apart when exposed to any sort of critical examination.

At best your examples of "fulfilled" prophecy involve taking small parts of a prophecy out of context, ignoring the part which don't fit your "fulfillment". At worst they read things into the text that are not there and still come up as nonsense. Oh wait a minute, that's not the worst. The worst example is Ezekiel 35 which you want to count as fulfilled not because your twisted reading has actually occurred but because you are in love with the idea of God massacring Palestinian Arabs.

quote:

I've shown why I believe the data could (I say could) accomodate the Genesis record.

Yes, you ignore much of the evidence and make up crazy excuses to try to force fit the evidence that you DO accept into your assumptions. Instead of accepting that you don't know what you are talking about or listening to those who know better you just insist that you are right and attack anyone who points out the truth.

quote:

As I've contended, no secularist non-ID minded person will ever admit to any evidence that I've ever cited

Let us be honest. No rational, honest or even open-minded person would accept your arguments, which frequently rely on misrepresenting the facts - by omission if by nothing else. Yet you seem to expect that people should accept anything you make up, no matter how crazy it seems to anyone with even a basic knowledge of the facts (a knowledge you cannot be bothered to acquire).

quote:

Obviously nobody here buys anthing I've said.

That is because you have lost the argument - completely. You never had any significant evidence. You never even took a serious look at the evidence. You never adequately dealt with the opposing evidence - and there WAS significant evidence against your "hypothesis" (including one piece which outright refuted it).

quote:

I've aired all I have and am ready to move on to something else.

In other words, you will run away in defeat, as happens almost every time. Without admitting the obvious fact you never had a case worth making.

If you want people to believe you Buz, learn the evidence, learn the science, learn to critically examine your own arguments - and drop them when they fail. Forget about making up bullshit excuses to try to evade the evidence, forget about repeating assertions after they have been thoroughly debunked - and forget about running away whining about your opponents' "bias" when you lose fair and square.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2010 12:01 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 13349
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 242 of 271 (560907)
05-18-2010 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Buzsaw
05-18-2010 12:01 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Buzsaw writes:

I've aired all I have...

Right, I understand. But I've read every one of your posts in this thread and I'm somehow just unable to find where you presented the evidence for the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs 4350 years ago. I'm sure since you keep telling me you already presented the evidence that it must be in your messages somewhere, but I just can't find it. Since you've already presented the evidence and since you've explained how busy you are at this time of year I don't want to take up any more of your valuable time than necessary, so just a short list of the evidence unencumbered by any description is all I'm asking for. The example I provided before of what I'm looking for was Coragyps list of the evidence for an asteroid strike 65 million years ago.

  • Crater
  • Shocked quartz in Nebraska
  • Tectites
  • Iridium
  • Tsunami deposits

Some equivalent list of the evidence for the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs 4350 years is all I'm asking for. Since you've worked on this for decades you should be able to rattle off such a list off the top of your head in just a few seconds. Things that actually happened leave evidence behind, and all I'm asking for is a short list of that evidence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2010 12:01 AM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:15 AM Percy has responded

    
misha
Member (Idle past 1123 days)
Posts: 69
From: Atlanta
Joined: 02-04-2010


(2)
Message 243 of 271 (560932)
05-18-2010 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Buzsaw
05-17-2010 11:44 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
How many times will this unsubstantiated, mathematically impossible, logically vacuous vapor-canopy joke be espoused with no evidence to back it up? (notice I will not attribute the term theory to the vapor-canopy because a theory explains a multitude of facts and laws. the vapor-canopy is a joke it provides a mutlitude of laughs).

Buz,

1). How thick was this vapor canopy?
2). Where was it positioned?
3). What held it in the atmosphere and prevented it from condensing and becomming rain prior to the "Flood?"

See, I read about the vapor canopy when i was a kid. I thought, wow, what a cool thing. Like a sci-fi hypobaric chamber it allowed things to live for a really long time and dinosaurs to grow really large. Then i took basic chemistry when i was 14 and realized what a stupid idea the vapor canopy was

q=Hm

Heat = Enthalpy of vaporization * mass

The vapor canopy is impossible. It would have poached the whole planet like a fine French chef.

Edited by misha, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Buzsaw, posted 05-17-2010 11:44 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:18 AM misha has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 271 (561329)
05-20-2010 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Percy
05-18-2010 4:48 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Percy writes:

Some equivalent list of the evidence for the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs 4350 years is all I'm asking for. Since you've worked on this for decades you should be able to rattle off such a list off the top of your head in just a few seconds. Things that actually happened leave evidence behind, and all I'm asking for is a short list of that evidence

Percy, can we agree that an hypothesis having a premise of a global flood as per the Genesis account would needs assume non-uniform planet properties relative to elements in the atmospher and planet surface?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Percy, posted 05-18-2010 4:48 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by PaulK, posted 05-20-2010 2:22 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 248 by Percy, posted 05-20-2010 7:14 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 249 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2010 4:11 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 271 (561330)
05-20-2010 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by misha
05-18-2010 7:58 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Misha, debate on an alleged canopy would be a separate topic. There has been some threads in the archives in which this was debated to some length.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by misha, posted 05-18-2010 7:58 AM misha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by lyx2no, posted 05-20-2010 12:21 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 1212 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 246 of 271 (561331)
05-20-2010 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Buzsaw
05-20-2010 12:18 AM


Water Canopy
Misha, debate on an alleged canopy would be a separate topic. There has been some threads in the archives in which this was debated to some length.

Yes it would be. But it's a topic you've lost before. So why are you repeating it?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner. In general, a message that should never have been posted.


"Mom! Ban Ki-moon made a non-binding resolution at me." Mohmoud Ahmadinejad
This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:18 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 10954
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 247 of 271 (561357)
05-20-2010 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Buzsaw
05-20-2010 12:15 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
quote:

Percy, can we agree that an hypothesis having a premise of a global flood as per the Genesis account would needs assume non-uniform planet properties relative to elements in the atmospher and planet surface?

Since you won't even explain what your "non-uniform planet properties relative to elements in the atmospher and planet surface" are - are we talking about ordinary catastrophes here or basic changes to the laws of physics ? - it's hard to see how Percy could agree.

Let us note that these "non-uniform" "properties" have to skew multiple independent dating methods to give CONSISTENT results as well as somehow preventing the appearance of rainbows, despite the wetter climate you talk about. So it appears that basic changes to the laws of physics ARE needed and obviously a Flood wouldn't cause that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:15 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 13349
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 248 of 271 (561375)
05-20-2010 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Buzsaw
05-20-2010 12:15 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Buzsaw writes:

Percy writes:

Some equivalent list of the evidence for the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs 4350 years is all I'm asking for. Since you've worked on this for decades you should be able to rattle off such a list off the top of your head in just a few seconds. Things that actually happened leave evidence behind, and all I'm asking for is a short list of that evidence


Percy, can we agree that an hypothesis having a premise of a global flood as per the Genesis account would needs assume non-uniform planet properties relative to elements in the atmospher and planet surface?

What I need to win my debate about whether humans and dinosaurs coexisted 4350 years ago is a list of the evidence. Descriptions of how the evidence fits together would be helpful, too, but you say you've already done that in this thread and that you're very busy, so if I can just see a short bullet list then I should be able to track down the messages with the details. If a Genesis flood and non-uniform planet properties are part of what I have to demonstrate in order to win the debate then I need evidence for those, too.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:15 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 1006 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


(1)
Message 249 of 271 (561453)
05-20-2010 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by Buzsaw
05-20-2010 12:15 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Hi Buz,

Buzsaw writes:

Percy, can we agree that an hypothesis having a premise of a global flood as per the Genesis account would needs assume non-uniform planet properties relative to elements in the atmospher and planet surface?

I see that in your proposed thread What The Genesis Noaic Flood Would Not Produce. you intend (finally!) to address the issue of this supposed non-uniformity betwen the pre-Flood and post-Flood world. Provided that this thread gets promoted, may I make a suggestion? I would appreciate it if you could focus on two things:

1. You continue to assert that the world changed because of the Flood. Please explain the mechanism by which a year-long innundation of water would effect all of the changes you've listed. It's simply not enough to say that it did. You have to have some idea of how it would have done these things. Anything else is simply dismissing the issue, which then turns the Flood into some sort of magic wand that can make anything happen.

2. You should also make sense of at least some of the things that we know a flood of that magnitude must have done and yet somehow didn't in this case. For example, water is much denser than air, and most of the sun's light is filtered out only 30-35 feet below the surface (less if the water is at all turbulant). Unless you have a very, very shallow flood, not only all of your plant life, but most if not all of the coral on this planet would have died out too. Coral is delicate and can be killed off by even slight changes in salinity and temperature, both necessary consequences of a sudden innundation of rainwater. And guess what? No big die-off of coral, either 4350 years or 65 million years ago. Didn't happen. (Unless of course you want to again claim that all dating methods are meaningless, and the massive extinction of marine life in the Permian-Triassic extinction event 250 million years ago is the same thing as the K-T extinction event that happened 65 million years ago.

Again, the whole point is for you to explain the nature of this Flood in physical terms, so that we can understand how it changed the pre-Flood world in all the ways you say it did, as well as why it didn't do the things that we would reasonable expect it to. Anything else is simply saying that it was all magic and that there's no way to make sense of the world, in which case there's no need for you to claim that science can validate your views.

Edited by ZenMonkey, : Spelling

Edited by ZenMonkey, : No reason given.


I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon

What's the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a new puppy? The puppy eventually grows up and quits whining.
-Steven Dutch


This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Buzsaw, posted 05-20-2010 12:15 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-20-2010 11:51 PM ZenMonkey has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12958
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 250 of 271 (561502)
05-20-2010 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by ZenMonkey
05-20-2010 4:11 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
And guess what? No big die-off of coral, either 4350 years or 65 million years ago. Didn't happen. (Unless of course you want to again claim that all dating methods are meaningless, and the massive extinction of marine life in the Permian-Triassic extinction event 250 million years ago is the same thing as the K-T extinction event that happened 65 million years ago.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of coral species did go extinct in the KT event.

From WP:

Approximately 60% of late-Cretaceous Scleractinia coral genera failed to cross the KT boundary into the Paleocene. Further analysis of the coral extinctions shows that approximately 98% of colonial species, ones that inhabit warm, shallow tropical waters, became extinct. The solitary corals, which generally do not form reefs and inhabit colder and deeper (below the photic zone) areas of the ocean were less impacted by the KT boundary. Colonial coral species rely upon symbiosis with photosynthetic algae, which collapsed due to the events surrounding the KT boundary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-20-2010 4:11 PM ZenMonkey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-21-2010 1:39 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
ZenMonkey
Member (Idle past 1006 days)
Posts: 428
From: Portland, OR USA
Joined: 09-25-2009


Message 251 of 271 (561516)
05-21-2010 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Dr Adequate
05-20-2010 11:51 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
I suck. I was thinking of what I thought was the proportionately larger die-off of coral in the P-T event, and didn't double check to see how extensive the loss was during K-T event. *sigh* Every time I think that I'm saying something smart...

Nevertheless, I think that Buz has more explaining to do than I do.

Edited by ZenMonkey, : No reason given.


I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon

What's the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a new puppy? The puppy eventually grows up and quits whining.
-Steven Dutch


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-20-2010 11:51 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
GLaDOS
Junior Member (Idle past 1297 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 02-03-2011


Message 252 of 271 (603294)
02-03-2011 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Iblis
04-20-2010 2:43 AM


Tuatara
Don't forget the Tuatara from NZ. Most dinosaur thing ever and definatly the only living "dinosaur" humans have or will ever co-exist with.

http://www.ok4me2.net/...mage/ok9_04/tuatara0608_450x300.jpg

Fact: Scientist believe they could live up to 200 years in captivity. They already know they can live well past 100.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Iblis, posted 04-20-2010 2:43 AM Iblis has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Cat Sci, posted 02-03-2011 4:44 PM GLaDOS has acknowledged this reply
 Message 254 by arachnophilia, posted 02-03-2011 5:04 PM GLaDOS has responded

    
Cat Sci
Member
Posts: 9688
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 253 of 271 (603299)
02-03-2011 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by GLaDOS
02-03-2011 4:25 PM


a little help
Welcome to EvC, GLaDOS,

When you're composing your message, theres a link to the left of hte box you type into: dBCodes On (help) <-- clicky

You can find all the codes to make your posts schweet.

Like you coulda done this:

with the "img" tags, rather than just posting the link.

You can also click on "Peek" at the botton right of any message to see the coding that was inputed into the text box.

There's also some help threads if you search for them that go into more depth.

Have fun!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by GLaDOS, posted 02-03-2011 4:25 PM GLaDOS has acknowledged this reply

  
arachnophilia
Member
Posts: 8967
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 254 of 271 (603301)
02-03-2011 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by GLaDOS
02-03-2011 4:25 PM


Re: Tuatara
GLaDOS writes:

Don't forget the Tuatara from NZ. Most dinosaur thing ever and definatly the only living "dinosaur" humans have or will ever co-exist with.

i see your "like a dinosaur" and raise you "actually a dinosaur"


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by GLaDOS, posted 02-03-2011 4:25 PM GLaDOS has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by GLaDOS, posted 02-03-2011 9:28 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
GLaDOS
Junior Member (Idle past 1297 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 02-03-2011


Message 255 of 271 (603338)
02-03-2011 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by arachnophilia
02-03-2011 5:04 PM


Re: Tuatara
Nice one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by arachnophilia, posted 02-03-2011 5:04 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

    
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