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Author Topic:   Who designed the ID designer(s)?
NoNukes
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Posts: 9317
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 392 of 396 (649019)
01-19-2012 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by RAZD
01-19-2012 4:55 PM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
However, if the question "where do the atoms come from" is asked, then chemistry is not able to answer that question.

This might be true, but it is of no real consequence. Chemistry is just specialized physics, and physics can provide an answer to where atoms come from.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. The proper place to-day, the only place which Massachusetts has provided for her freer and less desponding spirits, is in her prisons, to be put out and locked out of the State by her own act, as they have already put themselves out by their principles. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

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 Message 388 by RAZD, posted 01-19-2012 4:55 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
Taq
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Posts: 6014
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 393 of 396 (649079)
01-20-2012 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Energy
01-19-2012 7:36 PM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
If a footprint were found in snow, for example.

A person walking in the snow caused the footprint. The mechanism of creating footprints in snow is walking in snow. I still don't see a difference.

The origin of the footprint doesn't answer how the foot made the depression in the snow, which would be explaining the mechanism of it.

Perhaps you could tell us how they are different?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Energy, posted 01-19-2012 7:36 PM Energy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 11:20 AM Taq has not yet responded
 Message 395 by Energy, posted 01-20-2012 2:07 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Larni
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Posts: 3932
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 394 of 396 (649080)
01-20-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by Taq
01-20-2012 11:15 AM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
Perhaps you could tell us how they are different?

It would be possible to decsribed the compression of the snow without making direct reference to it being a human foot.

But I guess that would be asking 'what compressed the snow?'

Rather than 'what made that foot print?'

The second case we assume it is a footprint rather than anything else.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


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Energy
Junior Member (Idle past 1780 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-28-2011


Message 395 of 396 (649106)
01-20-2012 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by Taq
01-20-2012 11:15 AM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
Perhaps you could tell us how they are different?

I agree that the walking could be referred to as a cause. I guess the difference is that they don't refer to the same things at once.

So if simply walking is being referenced as the mechanism, then the cause would be what was walking.

Edited by Energy, : clarity


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RAZD
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Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 396 of 396 (649189)
01-21-2012 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 391 by Energy
01-19-2012 7:36 PM


Re: answers to find depend on the question asked
Hi again Energy

Thanks for the tips, Zen, and for the welcome.

You're welcome. Here's another:

Causality and mechanism ...

Quite. Every three-year-old has discovered ...

If you use

[qs=Taq]Causality and mechanism ... [/qs]
and
[qs=Dr Adequte]Quite. Every three-year-old has discovered ... [/qs]

they become:

Taq writes:

Causality and mechanism ...


and
Dr Adequate writes:

Quite. Every three-year-old has discovered ...

And it's a little less confusing.

The origin of the footprint doesn't answer how the foot made the depression in the snow, which would be explaining the mechanism of it. I could be wrong, however, as I am usually missing something lol

Correct - we could know about the footprint maker without the footprints, and we could study how footprints are made, however the existence of the footprints could also lead us to ask who made the prints.

The Laetoli footprints come to mind:
http://humanorigins.si.edu/...avior/laetoli-footprint-trails

Note that the mechanisms of how footprints are made has been part of the research into the Laetoli footprints and the discussions of which type of hominid made them (bone configuration, stance, etc).

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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