Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 115 (8733 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-24-2017 9:56 AM
445 online now:
Dr Adequate, PaulK, Percy (Admin), Tangle, Tanypteryx, Theodoric (6 members, 439 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: timtak
Upcoming Birthdays: OnlyCurious
Post Volume:
Total: 801,920 Year: 6,526/21,208 Month: 2,287/2,634 Week: 475/572 Day: 22/70 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
328329
330
331332333Next
Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Percy
Member
Posts: 15489
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 4936 of 4987 (784793)
05-23-2016 11:59 AM


Analysis: Shootings with Four or More Casualties
In today's New York Times: A Drumbeat of Multiple Shootings, but America Isnt Listening

The analysis was of shootings with four or more *casualties* including the shooter, not deaths. Significant findings:

  • 358 armed encounters with four or more people wounded or dead

  • 462 dead, 1,300 injured

  • Most shootings occurred in economically downtrodden neighborhoods

  • Nearly 3/4 of victims and assailants were black

  • Roughly half involved crime or gang activity

  • 2/3 or shootings took place outdoors

  • Typical victim was between 18 and 30

  • Average age of suspects was 27

--Percy


    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15489
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 4937 of 4987 (785872)
06-12-2016 5:17 PM


Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
From today's New York Times (caps in original): 50 ARE SHOT DEAD AT GAY NIGHTCLUB IN FLORIDA; ATTACK IS WORST MASS SHOOTING IN U.S. HISTORY

Time for common sense gun control. This reminds me of another discussion I'm in now. Those against gun control seem as irrationally in love with guns as antebellum Southerners were in love with slavery.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 4938 by Asgara, posted 06-12-2016 5:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4939 by kjsimons, posted 06-12-2016 6:44 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4940 by Diomedes, posted 06-12-2016 11:21 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4949 by AZPaul3, posted 06-14-2016 9:27 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Asgara
Member
Posts: 1779
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


(1)
Message 4938 of 4987 (785873)
06-12-2016 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4937 by Percy
06-12-2016 5:17 PM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
From one of my favorite bloggers..

The Seven Stages of Gun Violence by Jim Wright


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4937 by Percy, posted 06-12-2016 5:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 632
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 4939 of 4987 (785875)
06-12-2016 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4937 by Percy
06-12-2016 5:17 PM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
Unfortunately we are now up to 59 dead. This happened less than five miles from my house. It has been a very rough day for Orlando. I don't understand why people think they need assault rifles for personal defense, do they really need the ability to kill 50-100 people in self defense?

ABE: It appears that I misheard a local news report and that there are 49 dead victims and the one dead perpetrator.

Edited by kjsimons, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4937 by Percy, posted 06-12-2016 5:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 566
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 4940 of 4987 (785880)
06-12-2016 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 4937 by Percy
06-12-2016 5:17 PM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
The shooter was also interviewed by the FBI twice. I believe he was on the terrorist watch list. Yet thanks to the idiots at the NRA, they repeatedly shoot down (no pun intended), any legislation that would forbid the selling of firearms to those on the terrorist watch list.

Also disconcerting to realize that this guy was working as an armed security guard since 2007!

Either way, sad day for the nation and especially hard on those of us who live in Central Florida.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4937 by Percy, posted 06-12-2016 5:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 4941 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 9:41 AM Diomedes has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 4941 of 4987 (785899)
06-13-2016 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4940 by Diomedes
06-12-2016 11:21 PM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
Very tragic and sad.

I am a gun owner and feel that if anyone wants a assault rifle they should be scrutinized.
When I was in the Army I will never forget bayonet training.
The Drill instructed shouted "What is the purpose of the bayonet?"
We would in unison scream, " TO KILL DRILL SARGENT, TO KILL!!"
What is the purpose of the AR15? Of course to kill humans. It was designed to kill humans in large numbers and should be banned to anyone who can not pass a extensive background check or is on any no fly list. I also think if you are a lunatic or have a lunatic in your house hold you should not be allowed to own one. And while we are at it I think if you do buy one you should be required to register it with the ATF. There are plenty of law abiding citizens who shoot AR15 and they should have no problem with a little additional common sense regulations. With great power comes great responsibility. The NRA are now going to say if someone in the crowd had a AR15 the death count would be lower.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4940 by Diomedes, posted 06-12-2016 11:21 PM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4942 by Diomedes, posted 06-13-2016 10:14 AM 1.61803 has responded
 Message 4943 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2016 11:01 AM 1.61803 has responded
 Message 4947 by saab93f, posted 06-14-2016 6:24 AM 1.61803 has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 566
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 4942 of 4987 (785902)
06-13-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 4941 by 1.61803
06-13-2016 9:41 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
What is the purpose of the AR15? Of course to kill humans. It was designed to kill humans in large numbers and should be banned to anyone who can not pass a extensive background check or is on any no fly list. I also think if you are a lunatic or have a lunatic in your house hold you should not be allowed to own one

Technically, all guns are designed to kill. That is there function. With that being said, there is a logical dividing line between a weapon that is more about personal defense than personal offense.

Handguns for example are meant to be lightweight and have limited ranges. The army (as you well know), considers them 'side arms'. They are a weapon the soldier will turn to if their primary weapon (their rifle) is out of ammunition or malfunctions. But no one is going to fight a war with a handgun.

Assault rifles exemplify their function in their name: they are designed for assaults. They have long ranges and are not meant to function in a defensive role. I actually don't think any of these types of weapons should be available to the general public as I put them in the same class as bazookas or RPGs. They are weapons of war, pure and simple.

And even I will admit that handguns are somewhat on the fence regarding their function. Granted, they are in the 'defensive' camp, but they are also easily concealed, which makes them often used in crimes.

I have a few good friends that are cops and all of them have told me the same thing: the best gun for home defense, if you feel you need one, is a pump action shotgun loaded with non-lethal ammunition. Like rubber pellets, low grade bird shot or even rock salt. Ultimately, it isn't even the ammunition that matters. It is the shotgun's iconic sound. The cop mentioned to me that the moment any intruder hears that distinctive 'click-click' of a pump action shotgun, they will bolt.

On a side note, I am quite interested to hear from the FBI the circumstances of why this lunatic was interviewed twice in 2013. Clearly something tipped them off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4941 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 9:41 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4944 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 11:27 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4402
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 4943 of 4987 (785904)
06-13-2016 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 4941 by 1.61803
06-13-2016 9:41 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
1.61803 writes:

It was designed to kill humans in large numbers and should be banned to anyone who can not pass a extensive background check or is on any no fly list.

What possible legitimate purpose can a machine gun have in the hands of someone not involved in the military or law enforcement?

The idea that anybody can own these sort of weapons is utterly bizarre - you've normalised an insanity.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4941 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 9:41 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4945 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 11:41 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 4944 of 4987 (785906)
06-13-2016 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4942 by Diomedes
06-13-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
Hi Diomedes, yes guns designed to kill but a AR was specifically developed to kill humans. My Winchester pump was designed to shoot game birds but of course packed with 00 buckshot will do some extensive damage to people. My point is I can justify my shot gun as a hunting implement where a AR15 has no such distinction no matter how hard the NRA and gunnuts want to tout it as a game getter/recreational firearm. I do not own a AR15 nor do I have any desire to own one. What does anyone need a AR15 for? To defend you house? Really? You'll end up killing your neighbor and innocent bystanders as well. Do you need it because you want to go deer hunting with it? Isnt that what a deer rifle is for? Do you want it because you want to go to the range and pretend you are some kind of LEO or Military sniper? Just why does someone want a AR15? If someone wants one it will behoove our law enforcement to find out why and what they want it for and who they are and where they live and what ties they may or may not have to terrorist and also whether or not they are playing with a full deck. Whether or not they are on any kind of no fly list or watch list. No one is saying someone can not buy one and keep and bear arms. But if someone wants to keep and bear a arsenal they should expect a little extra scrutiny imo.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4942 by Diomedes, posted 06-13-2016 10:14 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4946 by vimesey, posted 06-13-2016 4:09 PM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 4945 of 4987 (785908)
06-13-2016 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4943 by Tangle
06-13-2016 11:01 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
The idea that anybody can own these sort of weapons is utterly bizarre - you've normalised an insanity.

Brother you haven't seen the half of it until you've been to a Texas gun show.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4943 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2016 11:01 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 784
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 4946 of 4987 (785943)
06-13-2016 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4944 by 1.61803
06-13-2016 11:27 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
Just why does someone want a AR15?

You're asking an extremely rational question.

The answer is extremely irrational.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4944 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 11:27 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

    
saab93f
Member (Idle past 60 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 4947 of 4987 (785981)
06-14-2016 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 4941 by 1.61803
06-13-2016 9:41 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
I have never ever understood the rationale behind the thought that evyone should be armed to fight back. If at this club all had carried, whod be the bad guy in the eyes of the police officers?

Another thing I cannot comprehend is why should you be able to buy an AR-15?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4941 by 1.61803, posted 06-13-2016 9:41 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4948 by 14174dm, posted 06-14-2016 7:48 AM saab93f has not yet responded
 Message 4951 by 1.61803, posted 06-14-2016 9:53 AM saab93f has not yet responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 94
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 4948 of 4987 (785982)
06-14-2016 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 4947 by saab93f
06-14-2016 6:24 AM


Re: Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History
Another thing I cannot comprehend is why should you be able to buy an AR-15?

One word - MONEY

If the manufacturer and sales people can make a buck, they will.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4947 by saab93f, posted 06-14-2016 6:24 AM saab93f has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3422
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(5)
Message 4949 of 4987 (785985)
06-14-2016 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4937 by Percy
06-12-2016 5:17 PM


Historical Revisionism
"Worst Mass Shooting in U.S. History"

NOT!

See Yontoket
See Sand Creek
See Wounded Knee

See Tulsa, Oklahoma
See Fort Pillow
See Elaine, Arkansas

The Pulse Massacre in Orlando stands on it's own as a grave tragedy for this country, but the hyperbole as the "worst mass shooting in U.S. history" is insulting.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4937 by Percy, posted 06-12-2016 5:17 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 4950 by 1.61803, posted 06-14-2016 9:50 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4953 by NoNukes, posted 06-14-2016 11:38 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 4950 of 4987 (785989)
06-14-2016 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 4949 by AZPaul3
06-14-2016 9:27 AM


Re: Historical Revisionism
Back then Indians and Negros didn't count as barely human to many Citizens let alone worthy of mention AZPaul3. Now even a stranded whale or dolphin will garner a full week of media coverage and countless outpouring of money and resources.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4949 by AZPaul3, posted 06-14-2016 9:27 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
RewPrev1
...
328329
330
331332333Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017