What is God’s Heaven or plan at the end? Would you like it?

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This is a straw man.

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No it isn't.I have in no way misrepresented anyone's argument, then argued against it.What I have done is brought in scientific evidence that calls into question the claim that NDE's and OOB experiences are positive evidence of the spiritual realm.

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Skepdic.com? Nice reference.

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It is a very good reference. Being skeptical of fantastical claims is a good thing, Vashgun. Remember what happened to you in the UFO/Aliens thread, when you weren't skeptical of that YouTube video? You let yourself appear to be foolish and gullible.

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We could also assume that due to,

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that these altered states of consciousness are in fact catalysts to releasing the spirit and soul into a spiritual realm.

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No, we really cannot assume that. We cannot disprove it, but what we can say is that there is a predictable physical basis for such experiences.

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Also, it is stated that the NDEr's have life changing effects afterward which your skepdic goes on to hand wave with a "where's the evidence" ploy.

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Having children can also be a life changing event. Also, losing a loved one, having a bad acid trip, going to prison, going to war, and being raped, for example, can all have profound, life changing effects upon people, too.None of those events are evidence of a soul or spirit, but that human beings can change their attitudes, sometimes radically, in response to experiences and how we deal with and interpret them.

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Even if the evidence was written in the sky in big orange letters you misanthropes still wouldn't believe.

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Not true.I just have much stricter standards of evidence than you do.

Don't you think it's possible that 'heaven on earth' is god's plan? Not only that, but is it possible that it is within god's plan to give us the tools to create heaven on earth? Aren't we made in god's image? Would you expect a creator to create less than?
Just maybe it isn't that the human thinks too highly of themself but not highly enough?
It's nice to turn a blind eye at the 'evils' with a 'nothing we can do' and throw oneself into the realms of the unknown but it changes nothing for the living. It is not I who denies the reality. We have a responsibility, god or no god, to serve the whole of humanity and the power to do so. We could call it spiritual evolution based in reality.

If I knew what God's plan was, I would be God and I wouldn't need to brush my teeth. This is a really interesting point if we could take it further. All of the laws of God (OT,NT) if followed could hypothetically bring about perfection. No one so far has done this, except Jesus. He did it for us, so as to be a perfect sacrifice for our sins. Which Jar will disagree with...I think I'll look for or start a thread on this topic. Someone else should propose an answer to this, I have looked into the question of what this exactly means and I am still unsure. Theistic Evolutionists believe so. I expect the OT/NT God to be who he says he is. Regardless of how life was created, it is still amazing that we can have conversations about abstract ideas. Arrogance is what started the destruction of man. Satan wanted to become like God, then convinced Eve that she could become like God if she disobeyed God. Perhaps, we think too highly of ourselves. As far as I know, the bible is the only religion that tries to limit the human potential, which is utter domination by a few. I notice in life that I can usually classify people into two categories. Those who want to change the world, and those who don't care. I always find myself asking the same questions: Why do all these people I meet want to change the world? Why is it that people always try to make a perfect first impression? At first these may seem unrelated, however I think it speaks to the heart of the issue. It is some how innate and/or metaphysically obvious that the world is not right. I know that sounds simplistic but, people have a desire to look perfect when they are not. Just like the world, where people desire perfection yet understand they do not have it so they must change the world instead of themselves. Which means changing others. And even though this is an impossible task, it seems, mentally, more plausible.Furthermore, to expand on this God complex that we humans have, why would we need to serve anybody if we were God's? I have seen no power demonstrated by humans other than manipulation to further a community. Perhaps God took a step back and is showing us that we can't do anything without Him. To me we obviously cannot.Edited by Ihategod, : No reason given.

I'd have to disagree...without G-d's tangible presence we can impose our veiws as G-d's own and start wars...which leads to great wealth for a select few. Without the undeniable knowledge of something greater (G-d) than ourselves (humanity), we can continue to feed our egos and cling fast to our sense of pride. Perhaps a plan of G-od's at "the end" would attempt to reverse these re-occuring trends.
Not to mention, without G-d, we can assign properties to everything and acheive endless speculation...Edited by Bailey, : add. comm.Edited by Bailey, : quote presentation

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

Good point

What laws are you referring to?
Re: why do some wish to change the world? Personally, I believe the world is constantly changing and we are responsible or irresponsible, whichever way you wish to look at it. We already have to the tools of destruction and construction. It is in our hands.

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Arrogance is what started the destruction of man. Satan wanted to become like God, then convinced Eve that she could become like God if she disobeyed God. Perhaps, we think too highly of ourselves. As far as I know, the bible is the only religion that tries to limit the human potential, which is utter domination by a few.

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And here I thought, I was the only one who read that. Satan could be classed as the original car salesman. Though he delivered on the goods, he failed to mention the fineprint."you will be like God!" he claimed.Adam and Eve were already like god's in there original state. They had power over all living things of the earth and would of become the root of all of the human race. No one knows how powerful they could have become, but given the characteristics of the hierarchy of existence, human ascension seems more than plausible.

In a nutshell, the world is doomed. This was the entire purpose behind self regulation as advertised by Satan when he claimed we would be free. NO matter how we slice it the results are the same. It is human nature that drives us to deny and elude the obvious. People simply refuse to believe we are on a course of self destruction. Denial is a powerful and devastating human attribute. it is quite obvious we "cannot" survive outside the implications of God's arrangement.Edited by pbee, : typo

For adoomed world, we are doing good.The population grows and more seek God than ever before.
Exactly as God wants.
If He was not pleased then He would end a fouled experiment.Regards
DL

You seem correct in stating this GIA.
Some may become insightful towards His plan.
To them the means and the end may justify each other...The anticipation is overwhelming.

Humans may be "doomed" but the earth will endure long after man has become extinct.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

It may not hold up as well as larger governing bodies in the universe if Johannes laws come undone ...
Generally speaking, the Earth would seem to have a greater chance of survival.
It's mass may allow it to accept a greater impact.Whether man self destructs or the planets let loose, the universe will record who out lives who ...Let the good times roll.

BaileyThanks for that.bluescat48Humans will not go extinct.
We will evolve.Regards
DL

Providing we don't kill each other off first.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

bluescat48Even with all the woes we suffer, the population has been growing forever. We will continue.If lucky, we will improve.Regards
DL