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Author
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Topic: Why do Christians make God out to be dumb?
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 166 of 259 (142528)
09-15-2004 1:14 PM
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When these organizations provide food for starving people, it is an act of love. 1 John 4:7-8 says, concerning love:
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 167 of 259 (142529)
09-15-2004 1:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 166 by dpardo
09-15-2004 1:14 PM
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When these organizations provide food for starving people, it is an act of love. Of course it is. But when you ascribe the source of that love to a do-nothing deity instead of to the men and women whose hearts are filled to bursting with love for their fellow humans, you take something away from humanity. You commit a grave injustice to humanity, if you ask me.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 166 by dpardo, posted 09-15-2004 1:14 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 168 of 259 (142531)
09-15-2004 1:22 PM
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Why are their hearts filled to bursting with love for their fellow humans?
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 169 of 259 (142532)
09-15-2004 1:25 PM
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Some insight into evil:
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war..." James 4:1-2
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 170 of 259 (142533)
09-15-2004 1:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 168 by dpardo
09-15-2004 1:22 PM
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Why are their hearts filled to bursting with love for their fellow humans? Why wouldn't they be?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by dpardo, posted 09-15-2004 1:22 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 171 of 259 (142562)
09-15-2004 3:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 169 by dpardo
09-15-2004 1:25 PM
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More confusion
In message 166, you use this quote from 1 John:
1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." In message 169, you use this quote from James:
James 4:1-2 "From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war..." Isn't this another way of saying what you did in message 152? To paraphrase : Humanity's good is from God and evil is strictly humanity's own fault. Just wondering PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by dpardo, posted 09-15-2004 1:25 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 172 of 259 (142571)
09-15-2004 4:33 PM
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portmaster1000 writes: "Humanity's good is from God and evil is strictly humanity's own fault. I don't believe evil is strictly humanity's own fault. I believe Satan has something do with it also. 1 Peter 5:8 says:
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" Exactly how he devours is not entirely clear to me, but I believe this passage offers some insight:
"(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" 2Corinthians 10:4-5 From this passage, I believe that he may be responsible for "planting" certain thoughts in our minds and that we need to be vigilant to "screen" thoughts before we begin entertaining them.
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 173 of 259 (142573)
09-15-2004 4:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 172 by dpardo
09-15-2004 4:33 PM
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Simple question
Is humanity capable of good w/o the influence of God? thanx PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 172 by dpardo, posted 09-15-2004 4:33 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 174 by CK, posted 09-15-2004 4:46 PM | | portmaster1000 has replied | | | Message 180 by cduben, posted 09-24-2004 10:21 PM | | portmaster1000 has replied |
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CK
Member (Idle past 4157 days) Posts: 3221 Joined: 07-04-2004
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Re: Simple question
well since he's a fiction - the answer has to be yes!
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 175 of 259 (142589)
09-15-2004 6:05 PM
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portmaster1000 writes: "Is humanity capable of good w/o the influence of God?" From the perspective that God has always existed and thus his influence has always existed, I am not sure I can refer to any example to support a hypothesis. Let us consider the story of Noah and the flood. Genesis 6:5-7 says:
"And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them." If we theorize that in that setting, the influence of God was minimal or non-existent, then my answer to your question is: "No". The passage declares: "...every imagination of the thoughts of his [man's] heart was only evil continually...". edit: changed "the" to "my" in "my answer to your question...
punctuation- added two periods. This message has been edited by dpardo, 09-15-2004 05:15 PM
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 176 of 259 (142700)
09-16-2004 10:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 175 by dpardo
09-15-2004 6:05 PM
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Right on topic
I'm glad you brought up the flood story.
dpardo writes: If we theorize that in that setting, the influence of God was minimal or non-existent, then my answer to your question is: "No". How can it be conjectured that God somehow decided to minimize his influence? I only see part of one verse that could "kinda" supports this guess.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh There's no indication of when this statement will take place or what it implies. Anyway, why would God create mankind and leave them just when they needed him most? Does God need a vacation after his disappoint in the disobedience of Eve and Adam? If only through God's influence can mankind ever hope to achieve any good then God would have "set himself up" to destroy them by withholding that influence. Why would God stop giving good influence to the world and allow his brand new creation to rot in it's own evil ways? As the original topic suggests, this makes God out to be dumb. thanx PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 175 by dpardo, posted 09-15-2004 6:05 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 177 of 259 (142703)
09-16-2004 11:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 174 by CK
09-15-2004 4:46 PM
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Re: Simple question
For an atheist, I guess it's a "VERY" simple question!  LOL PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 174 by CK, posted 09-15-2004 4:46 PM | | CK has not replied |
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 178 of 259 (142735)
09-16-2004 12:52 PM
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portmaster1000 writes: "If only through God's influence can mankind ever hope to achieve any good then God would have "set himself up" to destroy them by withholding that influence. Why would God stop giving good influence to the world and allow his brand new creation to rot in it's own evil ways? As the original topic suggests, this makes God out to be dumb." I don't believe God withheld his influence but that man rejected God.
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 179 of 259 (142931)
09-17-2004 12:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by dpardo
09-16-2004 12:52 PM
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Ah ok, I misunderstood when you said there was minimal to no influence. Point Taken PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by dpardo, posted 09-16-2004 12:52 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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cduben
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple question
In short, my answer to the question is no. Here's why. 1. When God created man, He planted in him a desire to do good. The sin nature was at that time nonexistant. However, that desire was planted and watered solely by God. 2. When man first sinned, he separated himself from God and was bound to a sin nature. This was passed down to us. Before you are regenerated, you have no choice but to do evil. The path to sin is the only option. But the believer is reconciled to God through the punishment of Jesus, and he is left with two options: the path to sin and the path to good. Yet even at this point, no good is possible without God's Spirit.
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