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Author Topic:   Islamic jihad: the genocide in the Sudan
randman 
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Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 1 of 203 (318198)
06-06-2006 2:47 AM


In the past 23 years alone, 4 million or more Christians and other non-Muslims in the Sudan have been subjected to a campaign of forced Islamicization with the worst atrocities known to man often committed, such as young girls as young as 9 gang-raped after their parents are killed and sold into slavery. Boys sold into slavery or sometimes chained up in a Madrassas forced to memorize the Koran; men literally crucified, villages burned and sprayed with chemical weapons, women gang-raped and murdered, or sometimes a very pregnant or nursing woman has her breasts cut off so if she has the baby, it will die not being able to nurse. Sometimes, her baby will be cut out of her while she is still alive so she can see it die.
The motive in this war is the government's policy of forced Islamicization via genocide and forced conversion.
The NIF regime declared a jihad (holy war) against the religious and ethnic minorities that resist forced Islamization. It is estimated that 2 million people have died in the conflict and five million out of the eight million people that live in the South have been displaced since the fighting began in 1983. The strategy used by the NIF and its accomplices can be considered a scorched earth policy. Areas are sealed off by road and air and government forces move in. Units are often sent into areas and told to "depopulate" the area. Mines are often sown on important roads and paths. All the people and livestock are taken or killed and all structures are destroyed. People are forcibly relocated to "peace camps." In these camps, the young are taken away from their parents and sent to other camps for indoctrination by Islamic fundamentalists. There are numerous reports that the young men taken away are trained as soldiers and sent to fight in the South. These soldiers, along with many northern conscripts, are referred to as suicide soldiers, as their use in battle is less than efficient. They are given a key to wear around their necks and told that it is the key to heaven an that should they die, they will instantly go there. Also in these camps, young women and girls have been forced to do manual labor on farms and are sexually abused by their captors. When food is scarce in the camps, only those who have converted to Islam are given enough to eat.
Page not found | Persecution
CIA Factbook....
Military regimes favoring Islamic-oriented governments have dominated national politics since independence from the UK in 1956. Sudan was embroiled in two prolonged civil wars during most of the remainder of the 20th century. These conflicts were rooted in northern economic, political, and social domination of largely non-Muslim, non-Arab southern Sudanese. The first civil war ended in 1972, but broke out again in 1983. The second war and famine-related effects resulted in more than 4 million people displaced and, according to rebel estimates, more than 2 million deaths over a period of two decades.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/su.html

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tusko, posted 06-06-2006 3:33 AM randman has replied
 Message 3 by Jazzns, posted 06-06-2006 10:57 AM randman has replied
 Message 31 by Modulous, posted 06-07-2006 7:40 AM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 4 of 203 (318297)
06-06-2006 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Tusko
06-06-2006 3:33 AM


the sacred texts
but the sacred texts have remained relatively unchanged during this time, I'd imagine
The difference is the sacred texts of the gospels demand religious liberty whereas the opposite is true for Islam and the Koran (and Sharia). That may make reform of Islam a somewhat daunting task. Mohammed was a conquering general. Jesus eschewed forced conversion and use of physical violence as a means to promote his teachings.
Big difference.
One of the implications may be that in places like the Sudan, Islam or radical Islam may need to be defeated on the field of battle in order to contain the spread of violent forms of Islam.

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 Message 2 by Tusko, posted 06-06-2006 3:33 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 16 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-06-2006 11:49 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 18 of 203 (318523)
06-07-2006 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-06-2006 11:49 PM


Re: the sacred texts
You ever hear of how there is a division between the OLD Testament and New Testament?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-06-2006 11:49 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 21 of 203 (318528)
06-07-2006 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jazzns
06-06-2006 10:57 AM


just talking reality
I won't do as jar and insist the topic is just the Sudanese war, etc,....It's OK to consider the larger topic of Islam as far as I am concerned.
The fact of the matter is Wahhabism might as well be the Islamic jihad or Hamas for all practical purposes. We aren't dealing with the fringe but the mainstream.
Now, is there a mainstream wing not committed to jihad at present, sure, but there is a mainstream wing committed to imposing Sharia, committed to using the State to force Islam in the world, and as such are committed to jihad. Denying it is useless. We aren't talking of some fringe groups like the Jim Jones cults.
This would be as if he Baptists, Episcopalians, Pentecostals and Methodists all went on the war path....it's a large group within Islam, and they control vast areas such as Saudi Arabia (Wahabbism), most of Pakistan, the government of the Sudan, etc, etc,.....Heck the mullahs in Iran are moderate compared to the Wahhabis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jazzns, posted 06-06-2006 10:57 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 22 of 203 (318530)
06-07-2006 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-07-2006 12:05 AM


Re: the sacred texts
Yea, but it's a different dispensation.
Bottom line Jesus is not of the same spirit as Mohammed and his militarism. Say what you want, but that's a fact. The roots are different.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 23 of 203 (318531)
06-07-2006 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Jazzns
06-06-2006 4:27 PM


Re: the sacred texts
Nor did the vast majority of Christians rise up to stop the Inquisition.
Bull crap. Just who do you think the Inquisition was primarily against. It was against Christians that the Pope called "heretical" and Jews as well.

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 24 of 203 (318536)
06-07-2006 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jazzns
06-06-2006 1:00 PM


Re: the sacred texts
jazzns, you like to hurl slurs, but the reason for posting about genocide here was to correct some past statements by others that claimed persecution of Christians was somehow not as severe as it is. The fact that Muslims are the persecutors is a secondary matter to some degree. I would post the same thing if it were communists or Roman Catholics doing this. I just don't like the hate, often found among liberals and from my perspective, evos, towards Christians and Christianity.
But on point of order, this is a huge part of Islam. Pretending this a minor issue within Islam is somewhat absurd.
The Hadith even in the most tolerant of Islam constitute second class citizens, as often do women. There's a problem there bud. Quit whitewashing it.

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 70 of 203 (318790)
06-07-2006 2:40 PM


whitewashing genocide
Whitewashing the genocide perpetuated by jihadis, and the crimes of radical Islam all over the Muslim world towards non-Muslims by attacking Christianity is kind of stupid.
No one here has addressed the fundamental difference between Jesus and His teachings, which were physically non-violent and men such as Ghandi and MLK have at times learned from and applied the "love your enemy" approach, with Mohammed who was a conquering general.

Replies to this message:
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randman 
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Posts: 6367
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Message 145 of 203 (319626)
06-09-2006 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Jazzns
06-07-2006 8:53 AM


Re: just talking reality
Jazzns, why don't you tell me what the jihadis claim to justify these acts?
You are asserting you have an understanding of Islam. What are these Muslims claiming>?

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 146 of 203 (319628)
06-09-2006 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Jazzns
06-07-2006 3:42 PM


Re: whitewashing genocide
All I saw were appeals to Old Testament scripture when Jesus clearly taught a new dispensation..."the law and the prophets were until John" and "from now on, the gospel of the kingdom is preached."
Mohammed was a conquering general. Jesus eschewed the use of forced conversion and physical violence.
Big difference and not answered yet, imo.

This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 147 of 203 (319630)
06-09-2006 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Jazzns
06-07-2006 8:56 AM


Re: the sacred texts
You never heard of the Waldensians, the Albingensians, the Donatists long before them, or the cathari?
Backlash? Heck, millions of Christians stood up to the Pope and died for it. You need to get your head screwed on straight if you are acting like the Christian community simply went along with the Pope and his radical policies.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 150 of 203 (319698)
06-09-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Modulous
06-09-2006 7:51 PM


Re: know your enemy
The question with Islam centres around only one thing, the Qu'ran - the written Word of God according to Muslims.
That's not really true. Sharia is considered holy and so it's not just the Koran but the traditions within Sharia.

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Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 158 of 203 (319753)
06-09-2006 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Modulous
06-09-2006 8:45 PM


Re: Sharia
well, most Muslims don't agree with your view of their religion. Sharia includes religious traditions.
Moreover, the Koran is still not a document favoring non-violence and freedom of religion for everyone. The non-Muslim is a 2nd class citizen.
Muhammed was not special and was just a man
Actually, Mohammed is considered their chief prophet.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Buzsaw, posted 06-09-2006 10:21 PM randman has replied
 Message 168 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2006 10:43 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 160 of 203 (319776)
06-09-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
06-09-2006 9:36 PM


Re: Big Difference.
yea jar, this relates to the Islamic jihad in the Sudan, how?
...but while we are talking, can this be blamed on the West as well?
Edited by randman, : No reason given.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 163 of 203 (319783)
06-09-2006 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jar
06-09-2006 10:16 PM


Re: Big Difference.
Islamic expansion and domination is the most plausible explanation as that is indeed the stated policy of the jihad. Convert to Islam or face extermination.
Now, it is true there are complicating factors such as the discovery of oil during the conflict that played a role in the international community ignoring the conflict (some financial interests including China) didn't want to upset Khartoum.
I think the war on terror has played a part in recent years as well.
But the war is essentially about Islamic domination, plain and simple.

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