|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Islamic jihad: the genocide in the Sudan | |||||||||||||||||||||||
SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5863 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
The difference is the sacred texts of the gospels demand religious liberty whereas the opposite is true for Islam and the Koran (and Sharia). That may make reform of Islam a somewhat daunting task. Mohammed was a conquering general. Jesus eschewed forced conversion and use of physical violence as a means to promote his teachings. Oh really? you think so? Shall we review the oh so holy bible?
Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)
If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10) If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15) Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I said "denounce the source of terrorism in Islam itself." It's easy to denounce terrorism, but you are denying its source in the texts and history of Islam.
I am aware that most Muslims are just living their lives. Nobody is asking for the entire Muslim world to rise up, but for a sizeable number. If the lefties can get together big demonstrations for their causes, surely the huge population of the Muslims can do better than this deafening silence about terrorism in their ranks. But it must be psychologically difficult, because the terrorism DOES come from their books. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
You ever hear of how there is a division between the OLD Testament and New Testament?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5863 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
Is the old testament god's word or not?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5863 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
Like I told Randman
Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5) If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10) If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15) Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) Watch out, that glass house is fragile
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I won't do as jar and insist the topic is just the Sudanese war, etc,....It's OK to consider the larger topic of Islam as far as I am concerned.
The fact of the matter is Wahhabism might as well be the Islamic jihad or Hamas for all practical purposes. We aren't dealing with the fringe but the mainstream. Now, is there a mainstream wing not committed to jihad at present, sure, but there is a mainstream wing committed to imposing Sharia, committed to using the State to force Islam in the world, and as such are committed to jihad. Denying it is useless. We aren't talking of some fringe groups like the Jim Jones cults. This would be as if he Baptists, Episcopalians, Pentecostals and Methodists all went on the war path....it's a large group within Islam, and they control vast areas such as Saudi Arabia (Wahabbism), most of Pakistan, the government of the Sudan, etc, etc,.....Heck the mullahs in Iran are moderate compared to the Wahhabis.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Yea, but it's a different dispensation.
Bottom line Jesus is not of the same spirit as Mohammed and his militarism. Say what you want, but that's a fact. The roots are different.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Nor did the vast majority of Christians rise up to stop the Inquisition. Bull crap. Just who do you think the Inquisition was primarily against. It was against Christians that the Pope called "heretical" and Jews as well.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4928 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
jazzns, you like to hurl slurs, but the reason for posting about genocide here was to correct some past statements by others that claimed persecution of Christians was somehow not as severe as it is. The fact that Muslims are the persecutors is a secondary matter to some degree. I would post the same thing if it were communists or Roman Catholics doing this. I just don't like the hate, often found among liberals and from my perspective, evos, towards Christians and Christianity.
But on point of order, this is a huge part of Islam. Pretending this a minor issue within Islam is somewhat absurd. The Hadith even in the most tolerant of Islam constitute second class citizens, as often do women. There's a problem there bud. Quit whitewashing it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
quote: Certainly, and the passages you refer to do in fact demonstrate its holiness, which means "set apart unto God." In general, you read out of context. Those are laws given by God to His own people, not involving anyone else. And you misrepresent them.
quote: Yes, here is the entire passage:
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. The context of all these references is the covenant God made with Israel, by which they promised to have no other Gods before Him, and to obey His laws. They entered voluntarily into this covenant. These commands you are referring to are all about preserving God's own people from contamination by alien influences. They have nothing whatever to do with any people other than the Israelites. There is absolutely nothing in them that suggests wanton violence against outsiders, which is the practice of Islam based on their holy books.
quote: Again, the context is God's people and their agreement, covenant, vow, to have no other gods before the one true God. And again the quote:
Deu 13:6-10 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. quote: Again, you are out of context and imply things that are not there. The city in question is an ISRAELITE city:
Deu 13:12-15 If thou shalt hear [say] in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. quote: No, not "kill anyone" but kill an ISRAELITE who is in violation of the covenant he or she made with God to follow His laws and worship Him only, and it is done carefully, according to law.
Deu 17:2-7If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard [of it], and enquired diligently, and, behold, [it be] true, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, [even] that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you It is all within the community of Israel and it is all entirely legally determined. There is nothing wanton or vague about it, and nothing that applies to anyone outside of Israel. This is simply nothing at all like what fundamentalist Muslims recognize that Islam commands of its followers in the "war verses," which is wanton murder of NONMuslims. If Muslims controlled their own community by such laws, that were accepted willingly by the people, that would be something entirely different from their terrorism against nonMuslims willynilly. Edited by Faith, : added some bolds Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Watch out, that glass house is fragile See my ansswer to your post to Randman, Message 25 above. You make the usual false equivalences, ignoring context. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : corrected post # reference
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
If one is to "judge" every Western religion according to the content of their "involiable" scriptures, there is plenty of material to be had by everyone.
Contrast this with the Tao by Lao Tse, the central book of Taoism. My copy is 78 pages long, easily read in a few hours, please show me where it preaches violence. Maybe the cult of violence is endemic to all Western religion. A far cry from my understanding of GOD.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If one is to "judge" every Western religion according to the content of their "involiable" scriptures, there is plenty of material to be had by everyone. Well there's a Contrast this with the Tao by Lao Tse, the central book of Taoism. My copy is 78 pages long, easily read in a few hours, please show me where it preaches violence. The Tao is nice, good teaching on how to live, like the Book of Proverbs. That's the most relevant comparison to make. Though it's been years since I read it. God decided to reveal Himself to Abraham rather than to Lao Tse or any of his predecessors, so what he teaches is just maxims for life, and many cultures have preserved great practical and spiritual wisdom like that. Including the Bible. The Bible does something entirely different along with that, however, it records the actual historical dealings of the Creator God Himself with a chosen people.
Maybe the cult of violence is endemic to all Western religion. A far cry from my understanding of GOD. Well, everybody's made-up God tends to be a sort of granddaddy rather than the real God we all hate because He's holy and we aren't. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : strikeout & correction
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 866 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Well, everybody's made-up God tends to be a sort of granddaddy rather than the real God we all hate because He's holy and we aren't. Maybe I am taking what you just posted as wrong, but to me you are implying the only way to GOD is through your understanding of GOD, I was wondering if a person like me could understand GOD without going through you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, everybody's made-up God tends to be a sort of granddaddy rather than the real God we all hate because He's holy and we aren't.
Maybe I am taking what you just posted as wrong, but to me you are implying the only way to GOD is through your understanding of GOD, I was wondering if a person like me could understand GOD without going through you. Sure, He's the one in the Bible. No need to consult me at all. He gave the revelation, I didn't.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024