Islamic jihad: the genocide in the Sudan

Its the dark ages with advanced weaponry and communications. Islam is 600 years behind Christianity is as far as theocratic concepts go. If history repeats itself hopefully the oppressed will revolt. It would be nice if the communications and advanced weaponry would work to their advantage (ie revolt and the rest of the world helps), but I think most people are smart enough to know that the rest of the world will only a help a bit, and then possibly withdraw that help unexpectadly.So the revolution will take some time yet I'm afraid, perhaps as long as it took for Europe to throw the oppressive theocracies off (all in all nearly 20 centuries and the idea isn't entirely dead yet).A peaceful moderate Muslim East would be absolutely wonderful, but those in power will do anything to stay there. And if that means bullying people with threats of Allah's wrath, the destruction of culture, rape and bullets in the head, then they will if they can get away with it.Re Sudan particularly - some of the people are trying to get out from the yoke of oppression, but the cost is so high they have to think of their lives and their families' lives as well as the rest of the innocent people that could die in civil war/revolution. Hopefully, the struggles will continue and the situation will be favourably stabilized. I don't have much confidence that it will be any time soon...though there is some cautious optimism from other quarters.

Why would they do such a thing when there is no source of terrorism in Islam? That Islam breeds violence is the message of the fundamentalist and the ignorant.It is very simple to say why they wont "denounce the source of terrorism in Islam itself." They don't believe that!

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Please show where in the structure of Islam or even Sharia it is permissible to rape a 9 year old or cut out an unborn fetus from its mother.How are those acts anything other than radacalism?I am focusing the discussion to Sudan and the silly allegation that it is Islam's fault that the attrocities are occuring. Isn't that what is on topic? What about my other points?Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Well, there were plenty of other Christians around the world who were not in Spain. Where was the massive united backlash that apparantly is required if a religion is supposed to renouce a part of it that goes crazy?That is the point.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

There is a problem here. I never said there is not. I think what is going on in Sudan is terrible and the world should get together to do something about it including other Moslem nations.I just know that your Islam = rape/murder/mutilation/imperialism association that you are trying to build in this thread is bullshit just like it was last time. And the last time CS tried to do it. And the last time buzzsaw tried to do it. Etc. Etc.It really is sad how you all harp on this issue to no avail. Evertime radical Islam makes the news it is just one more way for you to differentiate your particular version of an Abrahamic faith from theirs and continue to villify the Moslem.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

There are whole cadres of ex-Muslims who demonstrate that Islam is inherently violent, that the fundamentalists who promote terrorism take their inspiration directly from the Koran. The quote I gave from the Ayatollah Khomeini shows that the call to murder derives from it.Just because many Muslims prefer to read the violent parts spiritually or pretend they apply only to a historical context means nothing when the fundamentalists don't have to stretch a thing to take the call to terrorism from it. It is clear that the book COMMANDS THE READER to murder the infidel and all the reinterpreting only obscures the actual nature of the enemy. Which is what you are doing when you claim there is no source of terrorism in Islam. Perhaps because you have Muslim relatives who do not subscribe to the violent side of Islam you are willing to be deceived about its true nature. If we do not know the true nature of our enemy we cannot defend ourselves properly. Our enemy is the Koran itself.

Actually they were busy killing each other and expelling Jews. Oh yeah, and taking the wealth and property of those killed or expelled.short list of Jewish expulsions
1217-1290 in England
1306 and 1394 in France
1348 and again in 1498 from Germany
1492 in Spain
1497 from Portugal
1349 and again in 1360 from Hungary
1421 from Austria
1445 and again fifty years later from Lithuania

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Most of them were Roman Catholic, followed the traditions of the RC Church rather than the Bible, and were all in favor of such unbiblical things as the Inquisition so had no reason to oppose it. The rest protested the RC Church and were the victims of the Inquisition if they spoke out.Is something similar the case in Islam perhaps? It is sad to see how deceived you are. You've been shown the history of the religion with its commitment to the violent conversion of dissidents and the abuse of unbelievers and you insist on whitewashing it and pretending that the terrorism is merely a few crazies. It is the majority of peaceful Muslims who could be called "crazy" because they deny what their religion clearly prescribes -- and I'm very glad they do, but they are the ones out of step with its directives, not the fundamentalists.

It's a shame you are so quick to condemn Islam out of hand for the sort of extremrism that has existed in Chrtistianity throughout its history.As much killing has been done in the name of Jesus as has been in the name of Allah. It just so happens that the Islamic world is experiencing its own "dark ages" at the moment.Islam isn't the enemy - relgious extremism (of any sort) and poverty are our true enemies.

It is a shame that you refuse to follow the argument and understand what you are talking about. The TEXTS of the religion are what we are talking about. Learn something for a change instead of spouting the usual politically correct lies.

They don't prefer to read them spiritually. They prefer to read them correctly and in context, something that you and others of your pursuasion on this issue continually fail to do. This is false and has been demonstrated many times to be false. Just because the handful of you all never change your tune on anything does not make it any less false then the last time we hashed out the context of the war verses. I am not the one being decieved here and my family represents the majority of Moslems around the world who aren't the radical headline makers. Your enemy is some specter of Islam created by appeals to radicalism and irrationalism. Have you every actually read the Koran? Not just the pieces of it that you want to but that actualy Koran in large bits?I notice that no one has yet taken up my challange to justify all the things in the OP in terms of the Koran or even Sharia the so called all encompassing cause of all the craziness in Sudan. Where in either the Koran or Sharia does it permit raping children, cutting out fetuses from pregnant mothers, etc? I mean common! If Islam is the cause then there should be a direct link something in Islam and molesting children in the text or in the doctrine derived from the text. Just saying that in Islam they kill people is not really doing your position much service at all. How are those people anything other than extremist murderers?

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

YOU brought that up and now you try to dodge it by calling me "decieved"! You took the position that if there is no uprising of the masses against something that it is tacit approval. You didn't even bother to answer the real point in that post which is the compaison of rallying the Christian world. It is near impossible to get all of Christianity to condem some world event yet you expect that if Islam does not that means they are all in agreement in support of it. It is ludicrous to expect what you do in order to eliminate your silly and unreasonable conclusion that Islam supports what is going on in Sudan. I never said it is "merely a few crazies" but is a minority. Terrorism and extremism is a real threat that we need to deal with. I NEVER said any different and your presumption that I had is only indicative of the fragility of your position that you would need to invent a characture of my position in order to attack it. Which again is entirely false and has been demonstrated to be so many times. Repeating yourself does not make you more right. You can return to resume those discussion about the war verses any time you want. The issue was FAR from settled in your favor in any of the situations where it was brought up. All you have in support now is the tentativity of your minority position. Not very convincing at all sorry.Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

If someone saying that they are Christian uses passages from the Holy Bible to justify murder or other atrocities, you would retort that they clearly were not Christian and provide passages that would indicate why.The same happens when some people saying they are Muslim use passages from the Holy Qu'ran to justify atrocities.Why is it right for you, but not right for Muslims?Careful, though! You may be tempted to say that the Qu'ran *is* violent or *does* espouse violence. Yet you are not a Muslim, so you are not able to interpret what the Qu'ran says properly any more than an atheist can interpret properly what the Bible says.In essence: Either the 'not a true Christian' argument works for Muslims (with suitable word replacement) as well as for Christians. Or it works for neither. I propose that it is surely hypocrisy to have it both ways. It is nought but special pleading.

The texts of the Bible are also often violent in content. I stand by what I said. This reflects very poorly on you, Faith.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Many Muslims and ex Muslims have been quoted, by Canadian Steve mostly, and I can dig up plenty myself, about their own holy books, saying clearly that the source of terrorism is there. The quote I gave of Ayatollah Khomeini, no small-potatoes Muslim, is classic. Mohammed forced conversions at swordpoint. This is a matter of history. The attempt to equate the history of Islam with Christianity is just politically correct lies. Sorry, there is no comparison. The Christian texts are violated by violence, while the war verses of the Koranic texts are fulfilled by violence. You all live in a pink cloud of moral equivalence that has no relation to reality.