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Author Topic:   Free will: an illusion
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5551 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 72 of 309 (321788)
06-15-2006 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by mjfloresta
06-15-2006 1:23 AM


Re: Topic = Freewill
mjfloresta writes:
Think about it this way: It's as if the event is the cause and the foreknowledge is the effect....except the foreknowledge temporally comes first...but not causally...
By definition the timeline is an ordered sequence of events with cause coming before and effect coming after (That IS the definition of before and after)
Off course, for the definition above to make any sense, there must be an orderable colection of events, precluding the possibility of something coming both before and after something else.
Your idea of foreknowlege is intended to be an exception to the rule above. It comes after the event (otherwise it's not an effect as you stated), and it also comes before the event (otherwise it's not foreknowlege as stated).
But in what meaningfull way does it come before the event unless it is also a cause for that event? (Otherwise to lable it as foreknowlege would just be a play with words). But if it is a cause to that event it will influence it and mess up the idea of free will.
The only possible conclusion is that the idea of an all knowing god being compatible with the idea of free will is just a meaningless wordplay by people that want to have their cake and eat it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by mjfloresta, posted 06-15-2006 1:23 AM mjfloresta has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by cavediver, posted 06-15-2006 9:49 AM fallacycop has replied

fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5551 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 115 of 309 (322056)
06-15-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by cavediver
06-15-2006 9:49 AM


Re: Topic = Freewill
So you would also conclude that a universe that allows closed-timelike-curves (backwards time-travel) also removes the possibility of free-will, as it would obviously introduce foreknowledge?
I'm not even sure such kind of universe is even possible (I know you are the specialist here, but if feels like there might be to many boundary conditions to meet and not enought freedom to meet them) But the point here is that god is supposed to be our creator, and a creator with foresight leaves no room for free will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by cavediver, posted 06-15-2006 9:49 AM cavediver has not replied

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