Free will: an illusion

I always believed that the worst issue with free will is the idea of an omni-god, sole creator of life.An omniscient god, one who knows the outcome before you are born and still allows your creation, makes the illusion of freewill a moot point.

When discussing god and foreknowledge we have to get straight what god you are talking about.Is this god omniscient? Does s/he/it know your life before you are born?Is this god the sole creator of life?

Except that the foreknowledge of an omniscient, sole-creator of life makes freewill merely an illusion.It isn't the foreknowledge alone, it is the knowledge in someone who allowed your creation while knowing your outcome.

My last reply to you, Message 29, was on topic - Freewill.Are you planning on addressing it?

No dear, I'm not missing the distinction.The issue is not foreknowledge....it is foreknowledge of an omniscient, sole creator of life.If your god is not omniscient and doesn't know your outcome before you are born then I have no problem. If your god is not the sole creator of life, if some other entity or no entity at all is responsible for life then I have no problem.If your god IS the omniscient, sole creator of life then freewill is merely an illusion. If your god knows that "joe" will die an atheist and still allows joe to be born, then joe has no real choice in the matter. What's more your god just became capricious and cruel.

Scenario A:
If you are saying that s/he/it isn't omniscient and does not know the outcome of one's life, then I have no problem with it.Scenario B:
If god knows in advance that "joe" will die as an atheist and still allowed joe to be born then joe has no choice. It not only is foreknown by god, but in allowing him to be born god is creating someone solely to die an atheist.Again, the issue isn't the foreknowledge by itself. The issue comes into play when you have this foreknowledge exhibited by the sole entity capable of creating one's life.A god who is not the sole creator of life may know the outcome of any given life but not have had the power to create or prevent the creation of this life. If this foreknowledge is perfect that still puts a restriction on freewill that can be discussed. But being the sole entity capable of creating life, and allowing the creation of this life knowing what choices will be made negates any freewill argument.

If god knows you will live your entire life an atheist, and die that way also...do you have any choice to change that situation?Edited by Asgara, : change "and" to "an"

You say you may not have the choice to change your situation but continue to claim that you have the ability to choose.If you do not have the ability to change anything god already knows, then what is freewill?

So, one must accept that you are right in order to see if you are right?The existance of freewill with your omniscient god IS the issue.

For the purpose of this thread I am assuming god's existance. The other two assumptions that you want everyone to accept are the basis for the thread.You are assuming an all knowing god. I am the first to say that if your god is not omniscient then I have no real problem with you postulating freewill.We are saying the two assumptions are mutually exclusive, you are saying you need to accept both assumptions to see that they are correct. No one is going to accept that you are correct so we can see that you are correct LOL

LOL, when omnipotence is added into the mix they just add to the "cruel god" scenario. If god is truly omnipotent then s/he/it doesn't have to create all those destined to be damned..it really is capriciousness.