There's a similar phrase that we apply to police officers, firefighters, etc.: "laying their lives on the line". Do you think that refers only to the ones who die? I'd say it refers to all of them who risk their lives for our sake.
I agree with all this but...
...in this case "laying your life on the line" is similar to "laying down your life" but is
not a synonym (somebody must know what the right word is
). The phrase "laying your life on the line" specifically means risking your life - a consequence of which may (or may not) be that you "lay down your life" (i.e. die).
However it turns out all of that is irrelevant.
What we have here is a question of English usage. You and Faith are trying to project today's common usage of a phrase back on Jesus, who wasn't speaking English.
Almost completely guilty as charged. I am indeed talking about contemprary usage. Despite the fact I read all the messages - so I knew it was about Biblical quotations - I got sucked into fixing on the modern usage and forgot the Biblical context. A case of not seeing the wood for the trees, so
mea culpa(ish).
So, in the Biblical context I have some questions you may be able to answer:
For a better idea of what He
meant, let's look at the context:
quote:
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 But he that is a hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Does a shepherd
die for his sheep or does he
risk his life to protect his sheep? What use to the sheep would a dead shepherd be? Who would protect them from the next danger?
Why did you stop there? If you go on three more verses it says:
quote:
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
In your interpretation of Jesus laying his life down what does taking it again mean? I can't see how verses 17 and 18 make sense with your interpretation.
Of course, all this could be pissing in the word on both our parts. After all, we're talking about Jesus saying something in whatever language it was he spoke being later reported in 1
st. (?) Century Greek which is later translated into 17
th. Century English (for the KJV) being discussed in the 21
st. Century by a Brit and a Canuck.
What are the chances of our really getting the original meaning right?
Maybe more later - I've got to get my supper now!
Oops! Wrong Planet