|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 2/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: True Freedom | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
ikabod writes:
i think freedom is one of those words our language has made to be a oppersite to how the natural world is . like cold , we talk about cold as if its a quanity and how things get colder .. when if fact its heat engery we are talking about the world imposes a wide range of constrains apon use , what we call freedom is a label for the amount of constraint we are experiencing ... there is no measure of freedom , no absolute point of max freedom , only a scale of constraint . Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty Lao Tsu Tao Te Ching (2)(tr. Feng/English, adapted) Edited by Archer Opterix, : Correction. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Correction. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
How do the individuals here who have jobs, and live as "normal" individuals cope with how meaningless most of it all is? I love. I love a lot of things. I love going to work every day. I love being useful.When you enjoy a task, it has meaning enough. And I love the questions. Questions like these you ask. No, the answers don't come easily. And the answers change depending on history, culture, and place, as you observe. Interesting thing, though: the questions stay the same. Wherever you find human beings, you find the same questions.The questions may be our best clue. We are the creatures who want it to mean something. We are the creatures who ask.
How do you find meaning in what you do? I love. I love what I experience, what I do, what I create, what I share... and the people I share it with. We are here only a brief time. But brief does not mean insignificant. Beauties glow brightest when we know tomorrow they will be gone.It is when something we love is leaving us, even as we embrace it, that it appears most precious. And everything is leaving.
And why do you think we are here? We are here because somebody got laid. It's not a bad reason. Not at all. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
ikabod:
very nice poem , but i must say i do not agree with all its statement s , i think good and evil , in real sense are different , and many of the other are perceptions , not actuals ... That line of translation is a bit misleading for many English speakers. The Tao Te Ching, like Eastern thought generally, does not postulate 'good and evil' to mean anything like 'righteousness and sin.' It means the good things and bad ('evil') things that come to you in life. Another philosopher, Chuang Tsu, illustrated this with a famous story: A farmer lives alone, with only his teenaged son and a horse for company. One day the horse jumps over the fence and escapes. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a terrible thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a terrible thing? We will see.' A month later the horse jumps back over the fence--with six other horses it picked up in its travels. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a good thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a good thing? We will see.' A month later the farmer's son is riding one of the new horses. The horse throws him. The son is injured in a way that paralyzes him from the waist down. The farmer's neighbors say 'Oh, what a terrible thing has happened!' The farmer says 'Who knows if it is a terrible thing? We will see.' A month later a war starts. All the physically able young men in the region are drafted into the army. The war goes badly and all of them are killed. Only the farmer's son, because of his disqualifying injury, survives. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Corrected typo. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
iano:
Think laterally Ringo:
Doesn't hurt to be a Bible lateralist either. I'm a fan of the forward pass, myself. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
prophex:
How can you take such enjoyment in meaningless tasks that were created for you to partake in by other humans, by humans who were thinking about money, and greed, and efficiency? Please save yourself from it, you still can. What activities do you enjoy, prophex? I mean, besides expressing condescending pity to people who are happier than you are. That's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know. Do you enjoy playing the guitar? Do you like music? Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
And it looks like you answered my question in your reply to schraf.
Good. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
What you want:
1. guitar What you fear:
I would probably have a very hard time thriving. Reality to consider: The best antidote to fear is curiosity. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
prophex wrote:
How can you take such enjoyment in meaningless tasks that were created for you to partake in by other humans, by humans who were thinking about money, and greed, and efficiency? Please save yourself from it, you still can. Defending the statement, messenjah wrote:
The statements are "rich" regardless. Are the statements no less true? Your criticism is pushing an enslaved ideology that I personally hold disdain for. You were born free. Start acting like it, damnit. If I start acting the way you want me to, messenjah, I won't be free. I'll be acting the way you want me to act. You talk about freedom, but you really want people to think the things you say to think and do the things you say to do. You are angry when they disobey orders. You are intolerant of dissent. You would persecute them if you had the power. So I'll just have to stay free, making my own decisions, loving the people I love and following my own star, and let the flea-market Ferlinghettis say what they will. You don't control the universe. You are not going to. It is vast, implacable, and (as you are learning) utterly indifferent to your opinions. Fight it, and it will beat you every time. The only chance you have is to bargain with it. Come to some compromise. And don't think I don't know how much that annoys you. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Spelling. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
prophex writes:
My philosophy teacher made a list of philosophical questions on the board. These "life" questions included who to vote for in an election, and which products to buy. They weren't about anything important. And you decided these things weren't important according to what philosophy? Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Thus spake prophex:
I can teach my teachers, my one philosophy class feels like sunday school, and I actually have to take my time and do homework for these people. [....] I want to learn from the philosophers themselves, instead of having some muddled down version from a depressing individual who sees the world as capitalism. I'm going to read their works, that's all I really need. You say you can teach philosophy better than your teacher. You say you can even teach the teacher. And this, before you've even read the philosophers. This is truly intellect of a rare order. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Typo. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Concision. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
JavaMan: When I think of all the pretentious lyrics I use to analyse when I was young, it seems such a shame that I never listened to the Jam songs carefully enough. Paul Weller was such a clever lyricist ... ah, well, I suppose I can pay attention now. Mediocre bourgeois stuff. Ugh. You people disgust me. For deep philosophy, go to The Statler Brothers. Tommy's selling used cars, Nancy's fixing hair, Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
I'll give you my list--and keep in mind, I've not read every single work by all of these. Impressive list, kuresu. Just out of curiosity--who are your favorites so far? Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
messenjah:
before, you attempted to justify your existence in your passion, your love. Kierkegaard wrote in Either/Or: What is youth but a dream? And love the substance of that dream? Then I still have my youth, and I live my dream. How did you lose both so early? Take away love and our earth is a tomb. Edited by Archer Opterix, : Quote. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
prophex wrote:
My dad knew it all man, but he stuck with it. He threw everything away, all of his dreams. Greatest man who ever lived. For me. For my brother. For his parents, my grandparents. He loved all of us too much. He had to do it. He did it for my mom. He did it for my brother, and my sister. He did it for everyone. And it's so damn sad. Good man. Don't be sad about your dad. Sounds like he made a shrewd bargain with the universe. He traded some things that didn't matter to him so much and got the things that were priceless. That's a smart contract in anybody's book. He sounds too smart to have let all his dreams go. My guess is that having his family around him and seeing everyone have a good time was always the best dream. And now it's true. That's the thing about dreams come true. When they come true, they stop looking like dreams. They look like real life. For this reason people tend to overlook them. But when it's your dream, you notice. I know trading a fantasy for a reality feels scary to you right now. Real life has a complex taste with salt and bitters in it, and you're used to tasting dreams that are sweet and simple and pure and unreal. But I'll share something with you that may give you comfort. The real dreams are better. It's an acquired taste, like wine. You'll get the hang of it. For life is quite absurd, and death's the final word. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3627 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
kuresu writes:
As far as politics goes, Locke is pretty good. I like Locke. He tries to take human beings as they are rather than how he thinks they ought to be. And he sees people as distinct individuals rather than groups. He didn't bother himself much with consistency, so his epistomology isn't very helpful. But I think that's one reason for the success of his political ideas. He was practical. You read neoplatonic philosophers with their perfect systems, everything accounted for, and it's beautiful. But it's not so easy after you set the book down to figure out how to make the thing touch the ground. I really do believe the social contract (Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke) was one of the great insights into human behavior.
For the empiricist movement, Hume, the last of the three and perhaps the best of them, is interesting to say the least. Yes--one of those guys everybody gets mad at. But never boring! Hume did everyone a favor, but they didn't like it. He was like a good astringent. It stings, but it cleans things up. And he sent Kant to the drawing board. We're all better off for that.
Kant was good too--I really liked the categorical imperitave, but I feel he doesn't have it quite right--so long as I understand what he says correctly. My objection has to deal with right and morality being linked inseparably--as in the case of the murdurer at the door. Aiya. Kant's a tough nut to crack. Especially at 7:00 am! Thanks for sharing. Edited by Archer Opterix, : No reason given. Archer All species are transitional.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024