Morality Decreasing With Time?

Only the Holy Spirit can persuade. God does not persuade by argument alone Sidelined. He persuades by sprinkling the conscious which combines reason with feeling. He works upon your heart and speaks to the root of your being.But that is weakness to you. You think only with your mind. But that would be like loving your mother only out of nessecity. Or like marrying for money without regard for an intimate emotional relationship. I cannot convince anyone. And neither can God if they are determined not to be convinced!

Since the expiration of my suspension, I'm not getting email notification of responses to me.Any help would be 'Absolutely' appriciated as cooperative. And any lack of help would be 'absolutely' intentional for the purposes of self.That is the best way for me to illustrate the point as well as try to get resolved a technical difficulty.:

I am trying as hard as anyone has tried to do anything. Are you ABSOLUTELY asserting, that NOTHING I have said is relevant to the discussion?And please do not interpret that as an attempt to mistate or confound this issue. it is not a question intended to mock... it is a question intended to reveal the truth.Can we slow down, and in a cooperative manner, try to respect the intelligence of each other and make some humble move toward an attempt to understand where we are coming from?If I have something to give here, it is not in the terms you demand. So on that basis, you have already won. But the boundaries of truth are not so easy to define. Something Anglagard very reasonably conceded at the beginning of this thread. So, I ask you to refrain from attempting to couch it in such narrow terms.I think we all know what morality is. It's far more than law! Morality goes the the heart of the law; it reveals the intent of the law: Justice!A district attorney may be able to convict a person based on strict interpretation of the law, and justice still not be served.And that is what I think you are doing here (and quite succesfully).When we talk of truth or an example of absolute truth, it's not so easy. We're ultimately talking about all of reality. Truth must reflect what actually is!As for an attempt at an answer... An example of absolute truth:There is more to life than the physical and material.Now how do you prove that besides the ressurection? If a life lived in total submission to the fact is not admissable as 'real' evidence then how do we proceed?I'll tell you how... We consider the implications if it is not true, and see if they corrospond with our goals and strategies for attaining those goals.For example: if we seek justice for humanity, and justice is not something that is real; IOW, it is not part and parcel of the purpose for which the universe was created, then we are only deluding ourselves.Are justice, mercy, nobility, and all virtue realities?In my estimation, considering the death of millions throughout history who never had a defense or ability to speak, then if there is no final accounting by some sovereign authority who will balance the scales, then justice is indeed an illusion.If there is no-one to right the wrongs, then the notion of wrong is meaningless IMO. I don't see how I can conclude otherwise.So you see? You can label all of this as sophistry or preaching if you want. But if you do, you betray far more than you realize. And even though others may not follow a word that I am saying, that does not mean I have said nothing that is relevant. It just makes me a man of sorrows and loneiness in terms of participation in this forum.We should be cautious to absolutely condemn others in the manner you do with great frequency. Can we not look deeper into the portrait of reality and see what emerges?Justice is not something you can prove is absolute, but if it is not, then Katy bar the door, because all hell is going to break loose as men take justice into their own hands.This is because life without morality (justice) is simply unlivable! And as the Bible states so clearly, it is death! Not just physical death, but Spiritual death resulting in blindeness to God's light.Jesus did not come into the world to make bad people good! he came into the world to make dead people live. To give the opportunity to those who are dead to God, to become alive to God.Perhaps this is not meeting the taunt that you have weilded, but will you respect that I have done the best I can to defend my position.I think that morality is decreasing, not so much in terms of action, but in terms of understanding. The results and actions that follow have yet to play themselves out. But the effect on the attitude and defiance of men now, reveal to me the coming storm.You might say it's a jungle out there! But I have my eye set on the before and after. It's the only place to look for hope!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

I never claimed to speak your language... officer.But since you don't understand God's... I must suppose from your statement that that means to you, that it does not translate! Nor will you consider learning the language. It's easier to sit and laugh with the others who speak your language and laugh at the guy speaking in tounges foreign to you.I am tempted here to quote Jesus, but I had better not.If you'd be willing to meet in the middle and try to see what I am saying with the respect I offer you, then perhaps we could move forward. But you reveal your lack of interest in true discussion, by mocking and throwing stones known to exite and entertain the crowd.I know where I am...

I agree that this is the difficulty, but thought my point was to reveal that any illusion of neutrality is now exposed.It is not just theists who are biased.Thanks for the confirmation!

The fact that a forum can exist with the participation of members who pretend to be searching for finality of understanding and open to debate, when in fact they exist only to promote a particular interpretation of such, is a perfect example of the increasing tendancy to lack respect for others.And since the golden rule is supposed to (and I agree) sum up the law, then I believe I have shown evidence for my original assertion.The disrespectful and defiant attitude that is predominant in our cynical modern age is my evidence.Morality is not so much action as it is the intent and internal nature of the heart.What do you think?

That's all fine and good Sidelined. I do not question that you believe all of this.But what if I was to say to you, 'Don't give me that ooey gooey nonsense about loving your mother. I want proof that you love your mother. Bring forth the witnesses and show me the money! And don't bother with that, because they are not credible witnesses. I don't believe you love your mother. And nothing you can say can prove to me that you do!

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Your just making assertions that are not in any way verifiable. And don't give me any emotional examples that you ASSUME or PROJECT on to me, and expect me to relate. That is just avoiding the subject and trying manipulate me into admitting that I understand something I do not! I want a logical argument only... that proves to me you love your mother. Don't let your emotion get in the way!jar... are you listening?

If my memory serves me, you and I have been over this ground before.However, it's worthy of revisiting and relevant to the thread.We may not agree on all the particulars, but can we, with respect... allow each other to make a defense of our position.I don't know how many times I have said it... this is difficult ground for all of us.I think rather than saying the way it is, I'll be mindful to couch it in terms of my own beliefs and interpretation of the issues. We all have much company as to our beliefs, but it's just more respectful to give it as my own opinion.As far as righteousness being in the doing, you are right of course. And in that sense, I don't think the issue is one of external righteousness. I do not deny that in may ways, we are more moral rather than less. I am not saying we are not good people in numerous ways. I am saying that because of that, we have fallen into the trap of self adulation. And that corruption of soul, is the decrease in morality.You talk of womens rights and sexism? It was Christ who had the audacity to speak to the woman at the well, even though she was a Sumaritan and an adulterer. That's a big no-no in terms of the Jewish culture of the day. but He was there to overturn their applecart and show them the Spirit of the law. They had turned it into a public display of outward signs of piety. Those who performed these religious acts and cerimonies the best, were labeled as the righteous.You talk of slavery in terms of racial bigotry, the Bible speaks to slavery in terms of economics (with the exception I will note at the end of the paragraph). It used to be, that if you got in over your head, you didn't file bankruptcy, you righted the wrong with time served. And in some ways this makes much sense. In the case of the Egyptions and the Jews, here you see a case of racial slavery that evolved.What about slavery in terms of sin? We are prisoners of our own making! Jesus came to release us from the justice we deserve. He took responsibility for it, that way none of us can claim we are more righteous than the other. The only hero is the one who can handle that kind of label. Dare I say that I would not want it! it would destroy me, because I know my own heart.Perhaps you think you could handle such fame far better than I. You probably could. But the issue is whether you could handle it flawlessly.Public Relations being what it is, we all need to do some good things to promote our image. The image of the beast is highly gaurded. It is worshipped above all else. It is not even acknowledged as existing for fear of judgement of our neighbor. I have admitted to my true nature, and uncovered the image I once protected and look how some of you have judged me. But it is already judged and in need of being forgiven.I think you are taking Jesus words out of context by excluding all the available information. What you offered was true, but must be put together into a broader puzzle. Consider the words of our Lord: As for good deeds Ringo: I know what you will likely say Ringo, and if not you then possibly jar... 'Jesus is talking about money and not worldviews'. And He is, in order to make a spiritual point. And it is that denial that Jesus is speaking about! Public Relations being what it is, we all do some good things to promote our image. The image of the beast is highly gaurded. It is worshipped above all else. Our most valuable possesion is our self image and the worldview we hold that anchors that illusion! It's true condition is not even acknowledged as existing for fear of judgement by our neighbor. And rightly so......I have admitted to my true nature, and uncovered the image I once protected and look how some of you have judged me. No more fig leaves... I'm naked and exposed. I was once rich in Spirit, but am now poor. A lowly and despised man of honesty, who is perceived as threatening the idols you have made of yourselves. As for my own image, I have given it over to Christ. And that is weakness to this crowd, with it's catcalls and heckling.And that is the beauty of Jesus... He speaks to the woman at the well, not in terms of condemnation, but in terms of salvation from what is already acknowledged. She admitted that the man she was living with, was not her husband. She was honest about herself and was able to handle the shame. So Jesus words were 'good news' in a world that condemns the so called unrighteous. In todays secular world, the 'real' nature of morality has been uprooted in exchange for the external goodness we project. And the better we are... the higher the danger of selfrighteousness. Shame has been labeled a threat to self esteem.In one of His books, Lewis said, (paraphrased from memory)

Scottness never once denied that he was Rob. But he could have...Even so, he is a liar, a thief, an adulterer, etc... And as such realized he needs a savior. And I have been saved, but you seem to confuse justification by faith with the transforming work of sanctification by fire.The closest thing anyone said to me that approached the question, 'Are you Rob?' was jar... and all he said was... 'is this just Rob once again?'To which I replied, 'Whoever Rob is... he must have tried to tell you this before.' And I then commented that Anastasia must also be an incarnation of Rob.All of which was true since Anastasia was invited here by me after coming to much agreement in another forum.But if not giving full disclosure is equal to dishonesty, then the right to remain silent is a license to deceive. it was my impression that it was to avoid being railroaded by the powers that be. In this case, you powers that be know who you are.I had already made a confession to Schrafinator in another thread before AdimNosy suspended me. And when he did, I had the impression it was for claiming to be Rob, when he thought I wasn't. I'm not too sure now about that...I said some pretty foul things to Nosy months back...The fact is... before the forum was, 'I Am... Rob' I am just happy to be participating. If you were to read some of my old posts, you would see the same vitriol coming from me, that all of us theists are barraged with to this day.The fact I have matured and become more respectful is the only reason, I assume, that I am allowed to stay, and I am thankful for that. It's trail by fire.Why others are given a pass is of no concern to me, as I now understand better what is going on here.Merry Christmas all!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

(Ah! DrJones... You rascally super-slueth you... You'd make a great DA.)What would you say DrJones, if I gave the following defense?: Of course I am being sarcastic! But do you see the point?Yes DrJones... it was deceptive in some degree. And when I saw that you had noticed the same 'feel' in my posts I ignored it. I hoped it would go away. But then Shrafinator saw the same and jar was beginning to catch it. So I knew the jig was going to be up soon. I didn't care if anyone knew who I was. I was more interested in getting the points I try so hard to make accross because I believe they are valuable and meaningful. I believe you would benefit from understanding them.My biggest fear was that I would loose patience and display the same intolerance that had got me into trouble to begin with. It reared it's head, but I nipped it in the bud after a slap from Asgara. For the Christian, the old beast does not die just because the new life lives within. It's nonstop hangups and self warfare. It's a slow takeover... an agonizing attrition of repentance and constant submission to what is right. it's like having a conscoius that cannot be ignored. It's like a coach that expects the impossible... all the time. The hardest and most challenging thing life has to offer. The abundant life!I was afraid that if I was found out, that because I had been banned (which I confess implies permanency), that it would immediately be reinstituted.I could have outright lied and continued to do so. it could never have been proven! But I decided it best to face the music. Not out of trust that I would be allowed to stay in light of tremedous advances in civility on my part (if I don't say so myself ), but in respect for what I preach. That is more important than me.One lie, always leads to another. It's always wiser to get things out in the open sooner rather than later. Techinically, I had not yet lied, but it had reached the point where I would have to. But I did not want to minimize your intuition or your 'sense' of what was really going on because it is that 'fuzzy grey area' that I have been contending is where truth can be found and seen and understood, and followed.What a great opportunity to make the point that morality is indeed absolute by implication even if not by proof.Some things just cannot be proven... until there is a confession. And that! ladies and gentleman... is how you use your own depravity, to the advantage of virtue!Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Even if I were pure as the wind driven snow, you would call me out of tune with the common experience of mankind and unable to relate.Nothing has changed in two thousand years other than the ability for the West to understand and respect such wisdom. And that is the heart of the deterioration. It's an ebb and flow... and we're on the decline.Here's to you DrJones:Matthew 11: 16 "To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: 17 "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.' 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners.'" But wisdom is proved right by her actions."Just blow it off! You already know it's meaningless!

Sir... it doesn't really matter whether we win this debate or not. Or whether one soul is saved by this excersize. Just trust me when I say that my eyes get misty in thanks to God for you.

Well then... enjoy your time in heaven Ringo! You earned it cause your a treat! A real example to all of us. God bless you for saving me! I now see the light! What would I have done without you?My savior and friend, I bow in your honor!

Remember the cowboy?I tried to find it again but gave up. My current avatar is better to serve my purpose, but it would have been great for that last post!Merry Christmas! I don't like you, but i admire your spunk!

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