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Author | Topic: Where is the Good Non American Music??? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
joshua221  Inactive Member |
Why would Eliott Smith cover Beatles songs so many times if he didn't think their stuff was trivial and meaningless? Because it wasn't trivial and meaningless, it was good. The Beatles were just not artists as Smith and Johnston were.
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Do you really think that drug abusers and mentally ill people "understand life" better than everyone else? No but there seems to be a connection between those qualities and those who do "understand life" better than everyone else. Have you read that poem yet? EvC Forum: Read This Poem
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
No but there seems to be a connection between those qualities and those who do "understand life" better than everyone else. If you feel like getting around to it, I'd still be interested to hear what about life, specifically, was not understood by William Shakespeare or John Lennon. I'm reasonably sure you'd rather say, "they weren't true artists" another 15,000 times, but hope springs eternal. "I know some of you are going to say 'I did look it up, and that's not true.' That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut." -Stephen Colbert
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nator Member (Idle past 2198 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Do you really think that drug abusers and mentally ill people "understand life" better than everyone else? quote: So, in other words, you are saying, "No, except I mean yes." Wow, you are completely over your head in this thread, aren't you?
quote: Yes. It's nothing new. Do you have any idea how many versions of "I'm an artist, nobody understands me, I'm so deep and pained" exist in this world?
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kongstad Member (Idle past 2898 days) Posts: 175 From: Copenhagen, Denmark Joined: |
prophex writes: Because it wasn't trivial and meaningless, it was good.The Beatles were just not artists as Smith and Johnston were. So you agree that the Beatles made great art, but you deny that they were artists? I think you are confused about the difference between the object of art, and the creator of art. If the Beatles made great art, then by definition they are great artists.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2541 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
off topic, yeah, but prophex has made the comment that the beatles and shakespeare were just average joes.
i'm just wondering if he's familiar with this famous soliloquoy:
HAMLET: To be, or not to be--that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune Or to take arms against a sea of troubles And by opposing end them. To die, to sleep-- No more--and by a sleep to say we end The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to. 'Tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep-- To sleep--perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub, For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause. There's the respect That makes calamity of so long life. For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, Th' oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns That patient merit of th' unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscovered country, from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprise of great pitch and moment With this regard their currents turn awry And lose the name of action. -- Soft you now, The fair Ophelia! -- Nymph, in thy orisons Be all my sins remembered. not a great artist, eh?
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Jaderis Member (Idle past 3454 days) Posts: 622 From: NY,NY Joined: |
So you agree that the Beatles made great art, but you deny that they were artists? I think you are confused about the difference between the object of art, and the creator of art. If the Beatles made great art, then by definition they are great artists. No, he implied that they were not the same kind of artists as Smith and Johnston were...you know lonely, tortured souls who put out mediocre music. You do make a great point, tho. What do you think of kongstad's reply, O Great Master of All Things Art?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 94 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Bob Marley
Radiohead Stone Roses New Order Rolling Stones Prodigy Other than Hendrix and Nirvana I can think of very little American bands that I have much time for to be honest But that just proves that generally people like what they grow up with and once tatses are established it is very difficult to get people to broaden them. I make no bones about that applying to me and it seems that it certainly applies to you too. Maybe we should both make more effort.......
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 444 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I think part of your problem is that hind sight is 20-20.
Your listening to all this stuff, after the fact. When it first came out, it was cutting edge. All other stuff that you listen too is based on those famous bands, such as the BEatles, Eric Clapton, etc. Most of the good bands of today get their inspiration from those bands that you call unoriginal. Nobody does roack and roll, and the blues like America, and Europe, so your not really going to find good bands outside those two conutries. And if you did, it would probably be in another language, and that would make it unenjoyable to those who don't understand the language.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2541 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
America, and Europe, so your not really going to find good bands outside those two conutries France, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Italy, Poland, Brazil, Chile, and a whole host of other countries are going to be pissed about this statement. The USA and the UK/Ireland are not the only countries in America and Europe.
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
If you feel like getting around to it, I'd still be interested to hear what about life, specifically, was not understood by William Shakespeare or John Lennon. All I am saying is that from what I have read and heard of Lennon and Shakespeare put up next to Smith and Johnston it doesn't hold up. The lyrics to Imagine are horrible. Lyrics written by a man who would rather not think. The words in Shakespeare's plays are cool and good sure, but there is nothing that you can take out of Shakespeare and show me that would amaze me, inspire me, or make me feel that Shakespeare was not some average joe who learned to write the english language down on paper. You see there are 2 different kinds of people at this level, those who know and those who don't. The ones who don't are greatly appreciated by those millions of others who don't and the ones that do but are misunderstood by the masses like here in this microcosm at evc. I'm not saying that these men are saviors, I'm saying that they are brilliant - and that The Beatles and Shakespeare while being good at what they do were not brilliant. Their work is work and that is all it is, a purpose, a career...
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Nobody does roack and roll, and the blues like America, and Europe, I don't think there is any good rock and blues in Europe. All you got is the Beatles. haha
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
hhaahha
thanks for posting that, it strengthened my argument hahaaahaa
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
Do you have any idea how many versions of "I'm an artist, nobody understands me, I'm so deep and pained" exist in this world? I think you're joking - if you aren't let's just pretend that you were for your own sake. haha
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joshua221  Inactive Member |
I don't think they made art.
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