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Author | Topic: What you want to know about Christ. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
jar writes: You also need to understand that there is not one Old Testament God but many. There has always been only one God. All the others are fake, not real.
Exodus 20:3 writes:
[qs=Exodus 20;4,5]You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them...
You shall have no other gods before me.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Micah 4:1 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Did Jesus fulfill this basic messianic prophecy?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
gen writes: I believe in the Bible because of what I have been taught and what I have experienced, but most of all because the Bible itself says it is true. The Koran, itself, says it's true. What were the experiences that backed up what you have been taught? What kind of experiences would confirm the belief that this universe was created by an entity who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe? Would you agree with me that human beings regularly invent false religions?
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
iceage writes:
I am sure you believe things that you have not seen with your own eyes, such as the fact the world is round, the earth is so big, and the sun is so big. (I'm not sure exactly). There are thousands of examples of faith, and I believe that, in many cases, the Bible can be, and is proven. Why does your belief system place so much importance on believing things without evidence? Does it sound reasonable that the creator of the universe would really value such "faith" and why?'Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.'(I can't remember the reference, but its in the Bible). iceage writes:
As I have stated earlier, I now realise my first post sounded slightly aloof, for which I apologise. But, unless God gives me reason to, I will not stop believing in him or his word, the Bible.
Why in the world would you not want to change your beliefs? I think being able to change your beliefs as more information or a better understanding comes available is good and healthy. Shutting out the possibility of changing ones beliefs is a sure fire sign of a defense mechanism is in ploy. Those who crucified Jesus also refused to change their beliefs.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Although this is before the invasion of Canaan, when Sodom was burnt to nothing God gave his people fair warning and even promised to spare the city if there were 10 good people living there. As you said this is different from the slaughter God ordered at Jericho. However, since you bring up Yahweh's insatiable thirst for blood, why did God (Jesus in Xian faith) make it impossible for the pharaoh to let the Hebrews leave Egypt. Jesus threatens the pharaoh by saying that the firstborn of Egypt will die if the pharaoh doesn't let the Hebrews go, Jesus then hardens pharaoh's heart making it impossible for him to allow the Hebrews leave. So why did Jesus manipulate the situation to allow Him to slaughter thousands yet again, which obviously included new born babies and elderly men and women?
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
gen writes: Jesus was not in favour of killing people for 'working' on the Sabbath. Thanks for the reply. Perhaps the confusion for non-Christians comes from being told that Jesus is God. Here, God orders someone to be tortured to death for breaking the Sabbath rules.
quote: So, Jesus isn't God, then?
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
Brian writes:
That prophecy is obviously about the end of time, not the time of Jesus coming.
Micah 4:1 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.Did Jesus fulfill this basic messianic prophecy?
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
bluegenes writes:
An experience with the Holy Spirit is something that you cannot explain fully to someone who has not had one. Sometimes it is just the feeling of pure joy inside of you, or a feeling that God is just there. God is not 'an entitly who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe', He is the only God (see Exodus 20 3-6) and he has an interest in every human being, all 6billion of us, on this planet, as he has throughout the ages.
What were the experiences that backed up what you have been taught? What kind of experiences would confirm the belief that this universe was created by an entity who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe?
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
Brian writes:
God does not have a thirst for blood. He created all humans, he is the giver of life. He has the right to take it away. He has also given us free choice.
Yahweh's insatiable thirst for bloodBrian writes:
The Pharoah used his free choice to keep the Israelites in Egypt. Jesus did not harden his heart. He always promised to let them go if the plague was taken away, but always went back on his word. Little by little, God had to perform plagues that would hurt the Pharoah more closely. He eventually had to resort to killing the Pharoah's own son, because nothing else would capture his attention.
Jesus threatens the pharaoh by saying that the firstborn of Egypt will die if the pharaoh doesn't let the Hebrews go, Jesus then hardens pharaoh's heart making it impossible for him to allow the Hebrews leave. So why did Jesus manipulate the situation to allow Him to slaughter thousands yet again, which obviously included new born babies and elderly men and women?
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Sorry mate, but this is a messianic prophecy.
When do you think the messiah was to come? This messianic prophecy tells us about the messianic age during which the messiah will live. It heralds in an age of world peace, which Jesus clearly never witnessed, and war rages on in many areas of the world. Glad you agree though that Jesus did not fulfill this prophecy. Would you like another messianic prophecy that Jesus did not fulfill, or is one enough for you?
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
God had to be strict to show he meant the laws he had given the Israelites. Jesus IS God. When Jesus came to earth, it was to die so that we could have forgiveness. Jesus was without sin, so although he had all our sins on him when he died, he had no sin in him. 'The wages of sin is death...' but Jesus had not sinned, so death couldn't hold him down,
'But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.' Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Jesus is completely God. The Trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) are all God, although this doesn't really make sense, because how can three be one? But there are many things that our primitive human minds cannot get around. These are things we must ask God in heaven. That man was getting what he deserved, but Jesus has now died, so we can have the gift of God-eternal life. Edited by AdminPhat, : spaces
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gen Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 78 Joined: |
'In the last days...' That sure sounds like it is talking about the end of time. I believe the Messiah is and was Jesus. Please give me a prophecy about the messiah, not the end of time, that Jesus did not fullfil.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
Just to clarify please.
You are saying that Micah 4 that I posted is NOT a messianic prophecy? Just so that I am clear about what you are saying. Many thanks.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Why do you disagree with the Bible on this issue ?
(see Exodus 11:9-10 and similar verses in earlier chapters).
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Brian Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
God does not have a thirst for blood. The Bible contradicts you.
He has also given us free choice But not always the right to use it! Ask Jonah about free choice!
The Pharoah used his free choice to keep the Israelites in Egypt. Jesus did not harden his heart. Again, the Bible contradicts you. Exodus 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. God hardens pharaoh's heart so that God can flex His divine muscle. This is basic theo Gen. Brian.
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