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Author Topic:   What you want to know about Christ.
gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 31 of 300 (428350)
10-16-2007 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
10-15-2007 7:33 PM


jar writes:
You also need to understand that there is not one Old Testament God but many.
There has always been only one God. All the others are fake, not real.
Exodus 20:3 writes:
You shall have no other gods before me.
[qs=Exodus 20;4,5]You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 10-15-2007 7:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by jar, posted 10-16-2007 9:24 AM gen has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 32 of 300 (428351)
10-16-2007 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by gen
10-16-2007 5:47 AM


Micah 4:1 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Did Jesus fulfill this basic messianic prophecy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 5:47 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 6:55 AM Brian has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 33 of 300 (428352)
10-16-2007 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by gen
10-16-2007 5:45 AM


Experiences?
gen writes:
I believe in the Bible because of what I have been taught and what I have experienced, but most of all because the Bible itself says it is true.
The Koran, itself, says it's true.
What were the experiences that backed up what you have been taught? What kind of experiences would confirm the belief that this universe was created by an entity who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe?
Would you agree with me that human beings regularly invent false religions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 5:45 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:00 AM bluegenes has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 34 of 300 (428353)
10-16-2007 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by iceage
10-15-2007 9:09 PM


Re: Why is Faith a Good Thing.
iceage writes:
Why does your belief system place so much importance on believing things without evidence? Does it sound reasonable that the creator of the universe would really value such "faith" and why?
I am sure you believe things that you have not seen with your own eyes, such as the fact the world is round, the earth is so big, and the sun is so big. (I'm not sure exactly). There are thousands of examples of faith, and I believe that, in many cases, the Bible can be, and is proven.
'Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.'(I can't remember the reference, but its in the Bible).
iceage writes:
Why in the world would you not want to change your beliefs? I think being able to change your beliefs as more information or a better understanding comes available is good and healthy. Shutting out the possibility of changing ones beliefs is a sure fire sign of a defense mechanism is in ploy. Those who crucified Jesus also refused to change their beliefs.
As I have stated earlier, I now realise my first post sounded slightly aloof, for which I apologise. But, unless God gives me reason to, I will not stop believing in him or his word, the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by iceage, posted 10-15-2007 9:09 PM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by nator, posted 10-16-2007 9:15 AM gen has not replied
 Message 73 by iceage, posted 10-17-2007 12:37 PM gen has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 35 of 300 (428354)
10-16-2007 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by gen
10-16-2007 6:02 AM


Although this is before the invasion of Canaan, when Sodom was burnt to nothing God gave his people fair warning and even promised to spare the city if there were 10 good people living there.
As you said this is different from the slaughter God ordered at Jericho. However, since you bring up Yahweh's insatiable thirst for blood, why did God (Jesus in Xian faith) make it impossible for the pharaoh to let the Hebrews leave Egypt.
Jesus threatens the pharaoh by saying that the firstborn of Egypt will die if the pharaoh doesn't let the Hebrews go, Jesus then hardens pharaoh's heart making it impossible for him to allow the Hebrews leave. So why did Jesus manipulate the situation to allow Him to slaughter thousands yet again, which obviously included new born babies and elderly men and women?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 6:02 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:07 AM Brian has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2508 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 36 of 300 (428356)
10-16-2007 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by gen
10-16-2007 6:23 AM


Sabbath stoning
gen writes:
Jesus was not in favour of killing people for 'working' on the Sabbath.
Thanks for the reply. Perhaps the confusion for non-Christians comes from being told that Jesus is God. Here, God orders someone to be tortured to death for breaking the Sabbath rules.
quote:
Numbers: 15:32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.
So, Jesus isn't God, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 6:23 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:17 AM bluegenes has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 37 of 300 (428357)
10-16-2007 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Brian
10-16-2007 6:32 AM


Brian writes:
Micah 4:1 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it.
Did Jesus fulfill this basic messianic prophecy?
That prophecy is obviously about the end of time, not the time of Jesus coming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 6:32 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 7:14 AM gen has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 38 of 300 (428358)
10-16-2007 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by bluegenes
10-16-2007 6:35 AM


Re: Experiences?
bluegenes writes:
What were the experiences that backed up what you have been taught? What kind of experiences would confirm the belief that this universe was created by an entity who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe?
An experience with the Holy Spirit is something that you cannot explain fully to someone who has not had one. Sometimes it is just the feeling of pure joy inside of you, or a feeling that God is just there. God is not 'an entitly who shows particular interest and favouritism towards one middle-eastern tribe', He is the only God (see Exodus 20 3-6) and he has an interest in every human being, all 6billion of us, on this planet, as he has throughout the ages.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by bluegenes, posted 10-16-2007 6:35 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by bluegenes, posted 10-16-2007 7:44 AM gen has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 39 of 300 (428359)
10-16-2007 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Brian
10-16-2007 6:46 AM


Brian writes:
Yahweh's insatiable thirst for blood
God does not have a thirst for blood. He created all humans, he is the giver of life. He has the right to take it away. He has also given us free choice.
Brian writes:
Jesus threatens the pharaoh by saying that the firstborn of Egypt will die if the pharaoh doesn't let the Hebrews go, Jesus then hardens pharaoh's heart making it impossible for him to allow the Hebrews leave. So why did Jesus manipulate the situation to allow Him to slaughter thousands yet again, which obviously included new born babies and elderly men and women?
The Pharoah used his free choice to keep the Israelites in Egypt. Jesus did not harden his heart. He always promised to let them go if the plague was taken away, but always went back on his word. Little by little, God had to perform plagues that would hurt the Pharoah more closely. He eventually had to resort to killing the Pharoah's own son, because nothing else would capture his attention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 6:46 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 10-16-2007 7:29 AM gen has not replied
 Message 45 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 7:30 AM gen has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 40 of 300 (428360)
10-16-2007 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by gen
10-16-2007 6:55 AM


Sorry mate, but this is a messianic prophecy.
When do you think the messiah was to come?
This messianic prophecy tells us about the messianic age during which the messiah will live. It heralds in an age of world peace, which Jesus clearly never witnessed, and war rages on in many areas of the world.
Glad you agree though that Jesus did not fulfill this prophecy.
Would you like another messianic prophecy that Jesus did not fulfill, or is one enough for you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 6:55 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:21 AM Brian has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 41 of 300 (428361)
10-16-2007 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by bluegenes
10-16-2007 6:55 AM


Re: Sabbath stoning
God had to be strict to show he meant the laws he had given the Israelites. Jesus IS God. When Jesus came to earth, it was to die so that we could have forgiveness. Jesus was without sin, so although he had all our sins on him when he died, he had no sin in him. 'The wages of sin is death...' but Jesus had not sinned, so death couldn't hold him down,
'But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.' Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Jesus is completely God. The Trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit) are all God, although this doesn't really make sense, because how can three be one?
But there are many things that our primitive human minds cannot get around. These are things we must ask God in heaven. That man was getting what he deserved, but Jesus has now died, so we can have the gift of God-eternal life.
Edited by AdminPhat, : spaces

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by bluegenes, posted 10-16-2007 6:55 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by bluegenes, posted 10-16-2007 7:31 AM gen has replied

gen
Member (Idle past 6011 days)
Posts: 78
Joined: 10-03-2007


Message 42 of 300 (428362)
10-16-2007 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Brian
10-16-2007 7:14 AM


'In the last days...' That sure sounds like it is talking about the end of time. I believe the Messiah is and was Jesus. Please give me a prophecy about the messiah, not the end of time, that Jesus did not fullfil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 7:14 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Brian, posted 10-16-2007 7:24 AM gen has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 43 of 300 (428364)
10-16-2007 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by gen
10-16-2007 7:21 AM


Just to clarify please.
You are saying that Micah 4 that I posted is NOT a messianic prophecy?
Just so that I am clear about what you are saying.
Many thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:21 AM gen has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 44 of 300 (428365)
10-16-2007 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by gen
10-16-2007 7:07 AM


Why do you disagree with the Bible on this issue ?
(see Exodus 11:9-10 and similar verses in earlier chapters).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:07 AM gen has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 45 of 300 (428366)
10-16-2007 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by gen
10-16-2007 7:07 AM


God does not have a thirst for blood.
The Bible contradicts you.
He has also given us free choice
But not always the right to use it!
Ask Jonah about free choice!
The Pharoah used his free choice to keep the Israelites in Egypt. Jesus did not harden his heart.
Again, the Bible contradicts you.
Exodus 4:21
The LORD said to Moses, "When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.
God hardens pharaoh's heart so that God can flex His divine muscle. This is basic theo Gen.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by gen, posted 10-16-2007 7:07 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by gen, posted 10-17-2007 5:30 AM Brian has replied

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