Biblical contradictions II

Mike said:
"I don't think any one [sic] with common sense thinks that."I don't think anyone with common sense should take the Bible literally.[This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 07-24-2003]

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the serpant was the one who wnated them to fail

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Wanted them to fail? The serpent offered them knowledge and life-- the knowledge and life that God kept from them. It appears that God wanted them to fail, or at least, to never mature.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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For he will be lying JUST like the serpant who WAS AGAINST GOD for the hundreth time!

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Mike, bud, the serpent was indeed up against God, but he was not lying. You really must drop this. The serpent stated precisely what would happen, and it happened just as he said. How, by any convoluted logic, is that lying?

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You see you questio Gods righteoussness with your own thinking you are right , questioning God's will like the serpant!

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Lol... Yes, Mike. It is called thinking. It is the gift the serpent gave to us. And in fact, we did eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, so I suppose we DO have the ability to discern such things, yes? Or do you now deny that the Tree had such properties as God ascribed to it?

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Why did the serpant even interfere?

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Maybe he had a bit of compassion for Gods ignorant kept little playthings and thought maybe he'd give them a chance to be more than lapdogs.

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was he favouring what God said?

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Why do you keep bringing this up? This isn't the issue. The issue is that God and the Serpent did indeed say two DIFFERENT things and the serpent told the truth.

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you obviously even believe in a serpant before the will of God so how can you be righteouss in your comments?

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No, not before, but reading the story in your own holy book and noticing that the serpent, not God, told the truth.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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But God said they would die so the serpant was lying against God!

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That is absolutely ridiculous. The serpent was contradicting God. Contradiction is not the same as lying.

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ABSOLUTE RUBBISH name who died before the tree?

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grrrr.... God told them not to eat of the tree of life or they would live forever. If they were ALREADY immortal this would make no sense. Thus we conclude that they were not immortal, and therefore death existed. Pretty simple.

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Again simple misunderstanding, the serpant DOES lie he says they wont die but they aged and died and eventually people lived shorter and shorter lives.

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Context. Context. Eve is concerned that she will drop dead on the spot. The serpent says it ain't so. She, and Adam, are already going to age and die, as they have not eaten of the Tree of Life.

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what a foolish statement. God has explained the nature of self righteoussness and guess who qualifies?

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Christians have always been the most self-righteous people in my experience. Take, for example, the statement just quoted.------------------
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As I have asked you many times: Beetaratagang or clerendipity?

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Lol... indeed! Now, let me think....------------------
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God says those who are of the truth hear his words

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So only those who believe as you do get a hearing? A REAL hearing? See, with one fell swoop you dismiss all who disagree. You aren't setting yourself up for much of anything but self-impossed ignorance.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Just some general thoughts, which unfortunately may be worth nothing at all. But, just in case...Satan the SerpentThe thing about the serpent being satan was brought up several times. Christians believe the serpent was satan because the Bible says so twice in Revelation (12:9 and 20:2), not because of logic deduced from the story. Paul also said the serpent "beguiled Eve through his subtlety," suggesting he would have considered the serpent at least a tool of satan (2 Cor 11:3). Most Christians have never thought about it beyond this. The serpent was satan, and it's as simple as that.I doubt that Christians made that up. I don't know what the modern Jewish view is of the serpent, and I'm sure Jews don't take the story literally, like Christians do, but I have heard some things about satan in Jewish history that would apply.A satan was an "accuser" or "adversary." Originally, I understand there could have been many of them. The satan of Job walked in heaven on a regular basis. He was most definitely hostile to God, but he was not some banned creature that had led a failed rebellion in heaven.I think ancient Jews would have considered the serpent a satan simply because he was an "adversary," an opponent of God. The word satan eventually applied to just one being, and the thoughts about the serpent were never really updated.The Lying SerpentEven when I was a young, brand new, on-fire (Bible-toting, Scripture-quoting, devil-chasing, sin-defacing, etc.) Christian in the early 80's, I could never figure out why I was being told the serpent lied. I asked numerous people what they meant by that, and I never got an answer that made sense to me.It's the same with the commonly stated opinion that satan misquoted Scripture to Jesus during the temptation. I don't see that satan "took the quote out of context" at all. Yeah, he applied it where Jesus didn't think it should be applied, but the quote was accurate enough.Anyway, I doubt that was worth even two cents, but just in case.

The way I've heard it, in Jewish belief Saan is opposed to Man, not God. If I remember correctly one way it was expressed was that Satan was the angel who reminded God of the faults of Man. Another compared him to a "prosecuting attorney"

Ah, now that you mention it, that's how I heard it, too. Your point about "opposed to man, not God" is a good one if the Jews agreed with the folks here who think the serpent was being helpful. Obviously, the serpent wasn't the good guy to the Jews, either, so he was opposing man. He got Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden and cursed.He might not look like the bad guy to the westerner who's considering it, but he's the bad guy to the story teller.I think that does explain how he got to be satan as well as serpent, and I'm certain the Jews saw him as satan, because Paul and the John who wrote the Revelation were, after all, Jews.

So far as I can see the 2 Corinthians reference says no more than Genesis 3:13. It really doesn't support the view that the serpent is Satan.As for the Revelation the authorship is very much in doubt - I think the general view is that it is not by the Gospel author, so I am not sure why you say that the author was Jewish.

Opposed to man, not God:

• Satan is characterized as a son of God who asserts that Job will curse the LORD if his fortune turns to misfortune. The LORD accepts the challenge and gives Satan a free hand to molest Job, short of killing the poor SOB (Job 1:9-12).

Prosecuting attorney:

• The psalmist sees Satan in the courtroom. "Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. When he shall be judged, ..." Psalm 109:6,7 {King James Version} - Or - "Set a wicked judge over him, I pray, and let a perverse accuser stand at his right hand! and when his case is tried, ..." {Modern Language Bible}
• The prophet also sees Satan in the courtroom, where he looses his case against a high priest named Joshua. (Zech. 3:1-7)

Please note that in both cases the prosecutor is standing to the right of the accused. We still place the DA to the right of the accused, don't we?db------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?

Asgara,
Where do you get off stating that God lied? If you are going to have an INTELLIGENT response then you should back up your thought with some evidence. Adam and Eve DID die. They started dying the moment they took the fruit. They were meant to live forever but at the moment they ate the fruit, they began to become mortal and all of creation fell into that state as well. Genesis DOESN'T need to state that they died spiritually. If you read Romans 5:12 you will see that death has come upon us because of Adam's sin. We die not only physically but also spiritually, we are separated from God. Since you are not a believer you will not understand this point. If you are a believer then you should repent of saying that God is a liar. God CANNOT lie. I would hate to be in your shoes.------------------
"Thy word is truth"

I just wanted to know something real quick.Do you debate the Bible based on the assertion that it is the inspired Word Of God?
Or do you debate the Bible based on what it says?------------------
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

It's a very old story, and similar to a Sumerian myth about a serpent who gives trouble to women. In that culture, and in the early Hebrew culture which, in part, evolved from it, the gods were not so noble as we think of them today (Witness the story of Job). I suspect the story itself evolved, but there remains evidence of a group of creator gods who aren't quite honest and above board with the mortals in their charge. This may be true, but we must consider that their brand of Judaism was revolutionary, and much of it considered heresy by Temple authorities of the time.db------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 07-24-2003]

Chapter and verse please.You are about to be given a run for your money.db------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?