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Member (Idle past 96 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Discovery or Ignorance: The Choice Is yours? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
quote: Yes, I have shown how science discovered and proved in the 1930's that uranium atoms are fissioned, splitting into lighter weight elements. But you haven't explained how you know that this discovery won't be disproven tomorrow by a new discovery. Even most of your evolutionist friends would have a problem not believing that fission of uranium has been proven to a very high degree of accuracy, and will not be overturned by some new discovery tomorrow. If not, then you would rather live in a world where nothing is real or true.
quote: Do you have any proven verifiable evidence that the speculations of the evloutionary model actually occurs, producing species after species, starting from single cells to fully developed creatures? Yes. I noticed nothing followed the "Yes." In a world where there are some truths and absolutes, one must provide proven verifiable evidence that the speculations of the evloutionary model actually occurs, producing species after species, starting from single cells to fully developed creatures.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
In other words, "intelligent design" is nothing more than yet another creationist deception in a long line of deceptions. Those who believe and know our creator God get to explain what "intelligent design" is, not evolutionists. It is your choice to disbelieve if you so choose, but not your right to define what "intelligent design" is. Intelligent design is simply the belief/knowledge that our creator God, before anything was created, proceeded to intelligently design the universe and all life therein from the start to the finish.
Now, what I keep wondering is, why are creationists unable to employ anything but lies and deception to support and serve their religion and their "God of Truth"? It is you who has been blinded by the god (Satan) of this world as to the truth of who Almighty God is.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
The Yes was a link. Click on it to provide the answer to your question. Leaving aside how the first cell got here, so the evolutionary model has been proven in a laboratory from start-to-finish to a high degree of accuracy, where single cell creatures have been developed into fully developed creature/species, able to reproduce themselves and mutate to other species? Only on the National Geographic TV channel have I seen this done, not proven in a laboratory over time. Edited by John 10:10, : added a few words to the first sentence
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
Fortunately, that standard doesn't need to be met in order for the ToE to be a valid and very valuable scientific theory. We finally agree that ToE is a theory, not a fact. We will just have to disagree as to how "very valuable" it is.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
You have served as a good example of this in this thread with your insistence on your "true science" definition, as if it had any reality outside of creationism, and your repeated lack of understanding of how science really works. True science results in facts that can then used understand life as it is, the universe, and how to take the facts and use them to develop things for the good of mankind. The problem comes in proclaiming the ToE as fact, not theory. Everyone is entitled to their own set of theories, but not to their own set of facts.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
I've never said it was anything other than a theory. Nor has anyone else at this site. You might have realized that long ago if you took a moment and recalled that it's called the Theory of Evolution. Most evolutionists these days consider it proven fact, not theory.
quote: We will just have to disagree as to how "very valuable" it is. Well, you could ask any scientist who works in the field of biology. Then we won't have to disagree anymore. That is unless you think that your ideas about biology are more valuable than those of scientists who work in the field. "Very valuable scientists" who work in the field of biology deal with theories that result in proven facts, not in theories that can never be proven.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
You think the ToE hasn't been "proven." I'll set aside for the moment your complete intellectual incapacity to understand the truism that science never proves any theory. Even if it can't be "proven," it's still the single most valuable tool that any biologist has to use in the study of biology. That is a fact. If you disagree, provide evidence. As you said yourself, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. Science that is valuable does prove things to a high degree of accuracy. That's what facts are. Things that can never be proven, such as the ToE, produces nothing good in the study of biology, and in fact does much harm by convincing many school children and Nobel winners that the ToE is true science, when it is not.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
quote: Theories provide the means whereby things are proven, thereby becoming facts. That's completely backwards. You start with the facts and work your way toward a theory. The theory will then make predictions by which you discover new facts, but you must then fold those facts back into the theory. Let's try again. You start with things as they are. You make predictions as to how things came to be as they are. You PROVE to a high degree of accuracy your predictions were correct. At this point there is no need to fold them back into more theories, and start over again. Your predictions that are proven to a high degree of accuracy are no longer theories but are facts, even laws or absolutes, and can be relied upon by scientists, engineers, doctors, etc. to create many other things for the good of mankind. Now do you get it?
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
Can you give an example of creationist research that meet this pattern of investigation and which has led to new physical phenomenon being discovered? If not, can you really defend creationist science as anything but a barrier to understanding and progress? Scientists who believe in their Creator do all manner of scientific research, just like scientists who do not believe in their Creator. The valuable scientists are those who prove their research endeavors to a high degree of accuracy, regardless of their Creator beliefs. Our Creator has given creative abilities to mankind. Many honor their Creator and give Him the glory for their creative abilities, while many do not. How is this a barrier to understanding and progress?
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
The fact that the two populations were not able to mate indicates that speciation had occurred. There you go, evolution as we all know it. According to the story, the guppies that changed somewhat were still of the guppy species, and did not mutate into some other species altogether. That may be evolution as you know it, but it does not prove the ToE in any way, shape or form.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
I gave you proof. Your only complaint was that a human being didn't come out at the end. Like I said, most evolutionists believe the ToE is now fact, not theory. Just because you have warehouses full of fossils does not mean the ToE has been proven. Big difference between looking at fossils and proving they evolved from one life form to the first species, and then to millions of species. By your reasoning, how the first plant came into being and then mutated into millions of different plants must also be known fact?
quote: This is why the start-to-finish evolutionary model is not true science. But you were given start-to-finish evolution. Are you saying it wasn't science? Why not? We will just have to disagree on what you and others believe true science is. You believe providing predictions of a start-to-finish evolutionary model is true science. I believe proving the predictions of a start-to-finish evolutionary model would be true science, if they could be proven. Since those who believe in the ToE cannot get around the time factor in order to prove the ToE, then the ToE cannot be called true science.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
EVOLUTION = FACT & THEORY In short -Evolution is a FACT. We observe evolution. And, the Theory of Evolution is the EXPLANATION, or model, for the observed facts of evolution. EVOLUTION = OPINION & THEORY You observe by the fossil record what you think happened in the past, not the fact (proof) that it happened that way.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
So you're saying the only evidence you'll accept is a videotape of every single creature that has ever lived so that you can have a grade-school version of a family tree? I'm saying that in order for the ToE to be proven to be true, you must be able to do this. Since you can't do this, the start-to-finish ToE predictions/theories are off limits to true scientific research. Scientific research that is valuable is research that can be done in the time frame in which we live, and can be proven to a high degree of accuracy within the time frame in which we live.
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
quote: The same way man creates and engineers anything man does. Humans use evolution. The Boeing 777, for example, wasn't designed. It was literally evolved. I won't even try to respond to such wisdom as this!
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John 10:10 Member (Idle past 3026 days) Posts: 766 From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA Joined: |
Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handywork. Indeed it does. It is by studying the world we live in that we have come to the conclusion that the diversity of life we see on this planet is the result of evolution, not "intelligent design." If you really believed this, you would also believe that He intelligently designed this universe and all life therein.
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