Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Biblical contradictions II
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 71 of 307 (47300)
07-24-2003 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by PaulK
07-24-2003 12:36 PM


PaulK writes:
The way I've heard it, in Jewish belief Satan is opposed to Man, not God. If I remember correctly one way it was expressed was that Satan was the angel who reminded God of the faults of Man. Another compared him to a "prosecuting attorney"
Opposed to man, not God:
  • Satan is characterized as a son of God who asserts that Job will curse the LORD if his fortune turns to misfortune. The LORD accepts the challenge and gives Satan a free hand to molest Job, short of killing the poor SOB (Job 1:9-12).
Prosecuting attorney:
  • The psalmist sees Satan in the courtroom. "Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. When he shall be judged, ..." Psalm 109:6,7 {King James Version} - Or - "Set a wicked judge over him, I pray, and let a perverse accuser stand at his right hand! and when his case is tried, ..." {Modern Language Bible}
  • The prophet also sees Satan in the courtroom, where he looses his case against a high priest named Joshua. (Zech. 3:1-7)
Please note that in both cases the prosecutor is standing to the right of the accused. We still place the DA to the right of the accused, don't we?
db
------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2003 12:36 PM PaulK has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 74 of 307 (47304)
07-24-2003 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by truthlover
07-24-2003 1:09 PM


truthlover writes:
He might not look like the bad guy to the westerner who's considering it, but he's the bad guy to the story teller.
It's a very old story, and similar to a Sumerian myth about a serpent who gives trouble to women. In that culture, and in the early Hebrew culture which, in part, evolved from it, the gods were not so noble as we think of them today (Witness the story of Job). I suspect the story itself evolved, but there remains evidence of a group of creator gods who aren't quite honest and above board with the mortals in their charge.
I'm certain the Jews saw him as satan, because Paul and the John who wrote the Revelation were, after all, Jews.
This may be true, but we must consider that their brand of Judaism was revolutionary, and much of it considered heresy by Temple authorities of the time.
db
------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 07-24-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by truthlover, posted 07-24-2003 1:09 PM truthlover has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 75 of 307 (47305)
07-24-2003 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Theologian63
07-24-2003 2:03 PM


Re: God lied?
Theologian63 writes:
God CANNOT lie.
Chapter and verse please.
You are about to be given a run for your money.
db
------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Theologian63, posted 07-24-2003 2:03 PM Theologian63 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Theologian63, posted 07-24-2003 2:46 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 78 of 307 (47310)
07-24-2003 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by PaulK
07-24-2003 1:29 PM


PaulK writes:
I am not sure why you say that the author was Jewish.
Let me take a stab at this Paul.
The early church was mainly composed of people who considered themselves Jewish. The author of Apocalypse relies heavily on Jewish scripture, quoting it profusely, and arguing in favor of Jesus being the Messiah. And, he is conversant with the political and religious metaphors utilized in Old Testament prophecy. I find it hard to imagine him being anyone who wasn't steeped in Judaica for a long time. If we are going to have to guess at the authorship, I think the smart money would be on "Jewish."
db
------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2003 1:29 PM PaulK has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 82 of 307 (47314)
07-24-2003 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Theologian63
07-24-2003 2:46 PM


Re: God lied?
Theologian 63 writes:
If that is a "run for my money, I would like a refund. LOL
Patience, my good man.
db
------------------
Does anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Theologian63, posted 07-24-2003 2:46 PM Theologian63 has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 117 of 307 (47510)
07-26-2003 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Asgara
07-25-2003 2:59 PM


Re: God lied?
Hi Asgara,
Great collection of verses. I just checked theologian63's message index and it seems that he has not been notified of your response. Could that be because you have edited it?
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Asgara, posted 07-25-2003 2:59 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Asgara, posted 07-26-2003 2:08 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 118 of 307 (47511)
07-26-2003 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Theologian63
07-24-2003 2:46 PM


Re: God lied?
theologian63 writes:
Give me a CHALLENGE. LOL Titus 1:2 "In hope of eternal life which God, THAT CANNOT LIE(my caps) promised before the world began." Another is Hebrews 6:18 if you find one scripture is not enough. If that is a "run for my money, I would like a refund. LOL
An intelligent reply awaits you. No Refund
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Theologian63, posted 07-24-2003 2:46 PM Theologian63 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Asgara, posted 07-27-2003 4:31 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 120 of 307 (47525)
07-26-2003 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Asgara
07-26-2003 2:08 PM


Re: God lied?
Asgara writes:
I'll bet Theologian is going to be a hit and run poster.
As, apparently, was Culverin. I had a suspicion, from the moment they both appeared almost simultaneously, they might be one and the same interloper.
Now that they have both apparently disappeared, apparently simultaneously; my suspicions seem to be confirmed.
What a circus!
It must be tough for some of these guys. They might want to apply their intellects to these questions, but in doing so may risk what meager retirement awaits them as clergymen, or religious teachers. I got booted early, so I'm a lucky one. I can think what I want without risking my financial future.
God be with you Theo/Culverin, wherever you are.
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?
{NOTE from Adminnemooseus - They did join the same day, but their IP numbers are different. There is no hard evidence I am aware of, that "Theo/Culverin" is the same person. That said, I am aware of 2 instances of the same person being registered under 2 or more names - but those people are not posting under more than 1 name.}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-26-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Asgara, posted 07-26-2003 2:08 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Admin, posted 07-26-2003 2:53 PM doctrbill has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 124 of 307 (47608)
07-27-2003 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Asgara
07-27-2003 4:31 PM


Re: God lied?
Sure glad you chimed in when you did. I didn't want to bother with his challenge but did enjoy announcing his upcoming difficulty. Wasn't sure he would consider the OT evidence valid anyway. Seems a lot of fundies don't like the OT very much. They take the parts that conveniently support their views and try to find a way to discount the rest. I suppose we all treat the Bible that way to some extent. I'm sure I do. Some subjects are too advanced, or too complex, for easy debate. Few scholars appear among the fundies and those who do pass quickly into the outlands of skepticism. I expect that some of our opponents are already on their way out of that darkness.
If any of those are reading this: The Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations provides great fellowship for persons who still feel religious but can no longer believe what their mother taught them. Even atheists can be ordained ministers in this Church. It was a popular church for many of our founding fathers, I can tell you from experience, they're a pretty cool bunch; the Unitarians I mean; not that the founding father's weren't cool you understand. Unitarian Universalist Association | UUA.org
This has been an unpaid advertisement!
db
------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Asgara, posted 07-27-2003 4:31 PM Asgara has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 211 of 307 (49550)
08-09-2003 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Rrhain
08-08-2003 10:36 PM


Rrhain writes:
... an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat.
Sounds like you lived in or near the Bay Area or perhaps listen to an SF radio station. I got so sick of that commercial while I was there. Always the same. Years on end. No innovation. So I had to laugh, imagining what a hell it would be to have to listen to the ad playing over and over, while eating the product for all eternity.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Rrhain, posted 08-08-2003 10:36 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Rrhain, posted 08-09-2003 3:48 AM doctrbill has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024