Pick and Choose Fundamentalism

Peg code for: "I know God is an evil bstard but I am not going to admit it. But you will automatically assume that God is in the right?

If I had all the correct answers then maybe it would.My bewilderment is at why anyone can take the case for Jesus seriously, it is so obvious that He was no messiah, and certainly no god. When something is as obvious as this, and people cannot see it, then it has to cause bewilderment. Guess you misunderstood again.In the previous post YOU blamed humans, I also blame humans but for different reasons. Thus, you blame humans and I blame them too. Don’t see what this has to do with being honest?You post a quote from a noted liar and it’s meant to support honesty? These verses have nothing to do with children, they are about baptism.Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: If only the Bible said what you wanted it to say then maybe evil Yahweh might not be that bad.

Awww. Hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery so thanks for that! Hope so.

It has been proven beyond all doubt that the Israelites certainly never put Jericho to the ban. Archaeological evidence from not just Jericho but from all over Palestine has shown that there was never a unified military campaign by the Israelites (even the Bible contradicts itself over Joshua's campaign). The strongest current theory of Israelite settlement in Palestine is that the Israelite emerged from within Canaanite society, which does away with the need for an Exodus and the conquest. The Exodus and conquest of Canaan as per the Bible narratives was discarded decades ago.However, these facts do not affect this particular debate, where we can witness first hand the lack of moral fibre, and the desperation to cling to this erroneous image that our friends here have of the god Yahweh.This is typical fundy theology though, start with a conclusion then look for evidence and if that evidence is either lacking or contradictory to their claims then they will ignore it or say they dont have all the answers but the Bible simply can't say that God is evil despite the obvious vulgar acts God is said to have commanded, and also carried out Himself, in the Bible.

If this is true then yahweh is even more evil than I thought!If this is true then what is the point of life?If this is true then Yahweh specifically made people knowing that they would burn in Hell.If this is true then there's no free will.If this is true then we don't need to seek God.If this is true then we have predestination.This idea that God knows what the future holds for all of us is a major flaw in Christianity, it really doesn't portray Yahweh in a good light at all. One reason for this is that it means that Yahweh set up the Fall.It also means that Yahweh knew who shot JR long before even the script writers.

LOL, all good Christians must kill their children NOW before they have a chance to go astray. They'd certainly be doing them a favour if God knew that the child would not repent when responsible enough to do so.Hill Billy vastly overestimates God's love.

This isn't a logical conclusion phat.If God knows who is going to repent, then it isn't possible for you to be killed before then.Not like Jim to make a mistake like that.

Well, the thing is with this omniscient God is that everything in the future is already laid out before Him. He knows the day and the time and the mechanism that will bring all life on Earth to an end, so logically speaking He will have planned to have all those who are destined to repent already repented before we blew up the planet and killed everyone.Therefore no one innocent would perish, if you were going to repent then you would have to before you died, so maybe you have a good idea there!However, I wouldn’t mind another 30 or 40 years enjoying myself so don’t hatch your plan for a wee while yet if you don’t mind.Edited by Brian, : fixed quote box

They haven't even started yet.There's never been a single Bible prophecy fulfilled.

That’s a pretty bad analogy HB, for many reasons, none more obvious than you aligning yourself up with God.With predestination I would have no choice, I would be doing the butt stuff whether I wanted to or not, it was written that I would, so brace myself I suppose.But, as I said, the premises are too different to that of a loving God who knows all, and my inserting the steel rod has no bearing on my eternal life.The Bible tells us what we need to do to attain eternal life, believe in Jesus’ victory over death and accept Him as our Lord and Saviour, if not then you take the consequences. Now God knows what your choice will be long before the world was even created, so if you are one of the people who God knows will never accept Jesus as your saviour then there’s nothing you can do about it.If you are destined for heaven bud, then you go there regardless of your own personal plans. What do I forgiveness for and from whom? This is what I keep asking, why do YOU think I have done something that requires me to ask for forgiveness? Again, what makes you believe this? Oh there’s so many reasons, a few being that God is responsible for the Fall because he knew the outcome of the test. God creates people in the knowledge that they won’t be saved. Jesus sarcifice was pointless, and Jesus did not die for everyone. There’s a lot more but I can’t really be bothered going over them all yet again.Edited by Brian, : formatting

Well Peg, despite nearly 2000 years of close scrutiny by Christian scholars not a single prophecy has been verified, strange one that.How many people would you reckon have tried to verify a prophecy, a few million perhaps? And not a single one has done so, I know what thpse stats point to.

HB, there is so much wrong with you analogy it is difficult to know
where to start.First off, you have you and I, two humans, and a red hot steel rod. How can that possibly be an analogy of one human and one ultimate being? It’s just silly, unless you are saying you are God.Next, we have the fact that you do not know for certain if I am going to insert the steel rod or not, you have no way of knowing. I can work out for myself that it is a bad idea to insert the rod and decide not to.Next, you have not created the situation in which this scenario has arisen, but God has.Next, your interaction with me is also predetermined, it is out of your hands! If you were going to warn me or not actually has nothing to do with you because you are a product of God’s creation the same as I am.Next, If I was going to insert the hot steel rod then I would insert it, there’s nothing you can do about it. You see, even if God was to intervene and stop me inserting the steep rod that would only mean that I was never going to insert the steel rod at all.I could probably find another half dozen or more faults with your analogy, but surely you can see th errors?Let me see if I can break it down to high school language in the hope that you finally get it.As God decides to create the universe and everything in it, He also MUST know every single event that will ever happen in that universe because he is omniscient.Yahweh, the God of the Bible, is portrayed in the Bible as the creator of the universe and everything in it, Yahweh is THE creator.So we have two conditions for the argument.God is omniscient.God created the Universe and everything in it.So, this is a simple argument. Since God is omniscient the He MUST have known before He created the Universe every single thing that would ever happen within it, otherwise he would not be omniscient. He has to know how many snowflakes fell on New York between 6am and 12.21 am on the 6th of December 1967, or how many hairs fell out Napoleon’s head as he brushed his hair on 12th August 1811, or how much tax money Kent Hovind stole, all before He even began to create.
Here’s the rub, so pay attention. Although it is perfectly possible (although not certain) that God has created many different alternatives that an individual could do, for example driving down a motorway there are many exits we could take, God knew previous to creating the Universe exactly which motorway exit that individual would take. To make it clearer, although God may have created many alternatives for that individual that means that not only would God know what that individual was going to do, He also knew what that individual would not be doing. God has set all the parameters for every event in His creation, He has intentionally created the situation which predetermined the exit off the motorway that individual would take.Thus, God has guaranteed, by His act of creation, exactly what I will be doing every moment of my life. The only way that you can defeat this argument is to reject one of the two premises, feel free to do so. I don’t think I need to employ too much thought if you keep these analogies coming.I also hope you notice that it just isnt me that is finding problems with your analogy? It’s not difficult to understand, I can only assume that you don’t realise that YOUR foreknowledge and God’s foreknowledge are NOT the same. I’ve never been one for not accepting the consequences of my choices, I have broad shoulders bud. As we have seen, the poker analogy is severly flawed. I’m not confused in the slightest.The head smashing comes from talking to fundies that think snakes can talk, donkeys can talk, the universe is 6000 years old, humans could once live to nearly 1000 years of age, Jesus was the messiah, etc, when it is obvious that none of these are true. As far as God and creation goes though it does. Logic, and reading the Bible.Do you think everyone is going to go to heaven? As far as God is concerned it is obvious that they are. He knows before He creates what the choices will be, what is so difficult for you to understand? Are these the only two options? It’s neither. What makes you so sure of this when you don’t even know me? What is your evidence for this assumption? Okay, another wee look at your logic.A. Why do I need to ask for forgiveness?
B. Because you are human.Conclusion, all humans need to ask for forgiveness.Now we need to test the validity of your argument.Strange thing is, it seems that you have provided an argument elsewhere that makes this conclusion invalid.You have stated that children are exempt from all this, so here’s another one of your arguments:A. All humans need to ask for forgiveness
B. Children do not need to ask for forgivenessConclusion, children are not human! (I actually know a trainee teacher who would agree with you!)Critical thinking is not your strong point is it? The creator IS responsible though. He has predetermined the situations that govern your choices. Yahweh is resposible for creating evil, even the Bible tells us that, why did He even have to do that? It’s more to do with the balance of time versus the value of the exchange.

Not necessarily.For all you know you may repent just after you have killed the baby/babies.If God created your repentance when He created the universe you can essentially do anything you want, because you are going to heaven regardless.

Yes, it is because it has already been decided that you would repent at a certain time and place, this event was created at the time of creation.God would have already decided that you will feel so much remorse over your actions that you will turn to God and repent, YOU have NO choice in the matter because it has already been decided. Yes, God already knows who is going to heaven, He knew even before He created the universe, so you are only playing out a part.

Are you suggesting that God didn't know that Eve was going to eat the fruit and then convince Adam to eat it?I don't see how this event can be any different from any other event.I really don't understand what you are getting at here.