Condemn gay marriage, or just gay rape?

You think that's equivalent to sexual orientation? Really?Let me ask you this; could you ever choose to be sexually attracted to another man? I assume the answer is no. It's the same for homosexuality. Plus, while you can always "make the argument" that you were born with a strong tendency to do so, you'd be wrong. Of course you can. That's because it is wrong, so it requires rationalization. On the other hand, homosexuality requires no rationalization because it doesn't hurt anyone else. Now do you understand?

---

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

​

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

​

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

​

...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist

I doubt that he does understand.I think it is pretty clear that at least some of the folk writing the different stories in the Bible would have considered homosexuality a sin and abomination. I don't think there is much doubt that Paul did. It's far less certain that David did or that Jesus did.But that really is irrelevant when it comes to the issue of Gay Marriage.Marriage is a social contract and quite frankly, it does not matter whether it is a sin or not. It is also totally irrelevant whether the Bible or some branch of Club Christian considers it a sin.

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

stealing does hurt the one you stole it from so it is wrong and illegalbeing gay hurts no one a muslim could tell you the same about pig meat i still wouldent belive either of them untill they showe me proof of this so called god or savior i think some christians classify sex as sin too what does your wife say about that. so it is sinful to love and remember a gay man cannot (not will not, it is inpossible for him he is not "wired" that way) love a woman the same way a straight man can so again it is sinful to love that is what you are saying the bible says

I'd say that stealing from somebody who doesn't need it (and might not even notice it's missing) is not morally wrong. In fact, I'd say that the person who has more than he needs is the one who is really stealing."Morally wrong" has more to do with harming other people than with blindly following arbitrary rules. Jesus put the spirit of the law above the letter of the law.

---

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

So, how is it possible for a homosexual person to harm someone ( a third party) by entering into a union with another homosexual person? What harm do homosexual couples cause you, or anyone else for that matter?

---

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

I sometimes ponder the meanings of "normal" and "abnormal". As I see it, the terms are rooted in statistics. As such, is anyone (fully) normal?Anyway, "abnormal" does not equal "unnatural".I am a "night person". The norm is "day person", thus I am abnormal. But that doesn't mean unnatural or improper.As heterosexuality is the norm, calling homosexuality "abnormal" is technically correct, but that word does carry the implication of being something worse.Abnormally yours,
Moose

thats why morals are not laws, lets say you steal a million dollars from a drug lord and use it to fund rehab centers i would consider this moraly right, if you steal from him because you dont want to work and want to live large then i would consider you as bad as the drug lordbut both cases are illegal although in the first scenario you would probably get alot of leniancy from the courtin my country it is legal (now) for gays to get married although they had the same rights if they lived together and showed the intent of living together for a longtime example if i die right now my girlfrend will inherent all my property because in the eyes of our law whe are married evan though we don't have the paper to prove it problems might arrise in the hospital if only the imediete famely can see me and im out cold she would haveto prove that she is living whit me in a partnership.as for adoption of childeren it is very hard for gays to adopt here though i wouldent mind if a social worker would deem the enviorment sutablep.s. if you want to get married in a church in our county you get married twice the only legal version is the civil version and the church cant marry you whitout a civil marriege first

Before I comment further just a little personal note so you get to know me just a little bit.I have beloved family members who are in the gay lifestyle. I also lost a younger brother to HIV related complications due most likely to his involvement in the gay community in San Fransisco. He died because of the gay lifestyle.So I am not far removed from the gay community. The relatives that know me as a evangelical Christian also know me as a loving cousin and brother of family members who have long been in the gay community.Now to your comment. I think that it is not only the damage upon others which is a concern to God but the damage upon one's own self.Man was created for God's eternal purpose and homosexuality damages the spiritual , emotional, and in some cases physical vessel of the gay person him or herself.The person carried away by unbridled greedy heterosexual lust is called "an idolator" in the NT. That is one who practices the sin of idolatry. "For this you realize, knowing that every fornicator or unclean person or greedy person (who is an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God." (Eph. 5:5) Man is created for the kingdom of God. This idolatry damages the human vessel. As long as the human is in that situation he cannot participate in the kingdom of God. This does not mean that he or she cannot be saved. It does mean that the damage of being an idolator - replacing God with something else, obssesively, must be transformed by Christ's salvific work.When one is so obsessed that he just wants what he wants what he wants, this can become the usurping of God, the replacing of God with an idol. This idolatry damages man for God's kingdom.Now God is the Judge. We may rationalize this way and that way that we harm no other. But God knows everything. You do not know the effects of your so called private sins on the total fabric of time and human life. God knows.So I have no confidence concerning any sinful act that I could reason with God that it harms no one else. And the fact that sin harms the sinner is enough to merit forgiveness and salvation.God is longsuffering and compassionate. The Holy Spirit may even lead the sinner to submit to some professional help as well as God operates to free us from various damaging sins.He knew what we were before we were born. And He made mericiful provision for the sinner even before he was born.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Being gay is physically destructive? You're going to have to explain that one to me.

i think you are one of those when one mentions gay to them all they see is 2 men puting their sexsual organs where they "dont belong" and you cannot evan begin to imagine that the 2 men could actualy love each other.and p.s
loads of straight people get aids the aids is gods punishment for their sin was the line that helped aids to spreed so fast 30 years a go all the "normal" people felt safe.

So this god you worship only created man for his own pleasure, kinda a living dildo I guess. And I imagine that you can show how homosexuality damages this dildo that your God created?Has the God you worship learned that it can just order a dildo on line or even a hooker if needed?

---

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I distinctly remember an early temptation and instance of stealing in my life. I recall rationalizing that it would NOT hurt the person from which I stole.Jesus said out of man's heart come "evil reasonings" which delife a man: "For out of the heart come evil reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnessings, blasphemies, these are the things which defile the man ..." (Matt. 15:19,20) If we stopped ourselves sometime and asked "Exactly WHAT am I reasoning about here?" we would realize that our sins are often preceeded with all kinds of self justifying rationals.Men reason their way into thefts, into adultery, into fornication, into many defiling transgressions. And part of this reasoning process is our convincing ourselves that no one else will be hurt. So the salvation really must start deep in the heart and in the mind. As a Christian I seek to understand the will of God. I cannot simply say "Christians say this" or "Christians say that". And I cannot point to abuses of wrong things some Christians may have said in order to rationalize not listening to conscience of the word of God.I am a typical male man. I married a pretty typical female woman with whom I have been united for 33 years. Since neither one of have the extreme view that you expouse "some Christians" may have had the question is irrelevant.And I don't recall having ever met any Christians who held such an extreme view that sex was bad period.I would say that the Apostle Paul warned that to forbid marriage was a teaching of demons. "But the Spirit says expressely that in the later times some will deapart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons... who forbid marriage ..." (See 1 Timothy 4:1-3)So I judge that the Roman Catholic practice of forbiding marriage for those seeking to serve God, is a demonin teaching. It is something of the deep things of the occult and Satan disguised in "Christian" terms.Any celibacy of a servant of God should be voluntary and not a legal restriction imposed. This is about as close as "sex is evil" that some sections of Christianity have gotten. There are probbly other extreme examples. For instance the Shakers could be considered a Christian cult. And I think the die out because they forbid marriage.I would not encourage you to regard abberational extreme views as orthodox Christian teaching. And I think the lazy way is to assume that such abberations provide a rational to dismiss all the Bible teaches on the subject matter:Ie., "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and the bed undefiled; for fornicators and adulterors God will judge." (Hebrews 13:4) Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Would you care to answer my question?

---

"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

I read a book once that was essentially "The Joy of Fundie Sex". It pontificated that oral sex - a.k.a. "the genital kiss" - is okay (at least when performed by women) but anal sex is unacceptable "because homosexuals do it".

---

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

well your logic was flawed stealing always hurts the one that got stolen from.i have my own simple logic in life i dont do things to others that i would not want done to myselfi dont want things stolen from me so i dont steal from others
i dont want others to dictate how i have to live, and i dont dictate it to others i evan protest sometimes for those peoples rights evan though it is not my way of lifethe other part of my logic is if you do not act a certian way you have no right to demand others will
if you steal you have no right of complaining if you got stolen from
if your car is stuck in a ditch you have no right to complyin that nobody is helping if you wouldent help a nother that is in the same situation.back on topiccan your mind compute that 2 people of the same sex can be in love or is it all that you see in your mind is the way they have sexual intercourse