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Author
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Topic: Condemn gay marriage, or just gay rape?
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 50 of 573 (582221)
09-20-2010 12:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by jaywill
09-20-2010 10:47 AM
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So, how is it possible for a homosexual person to harm someone ( a third party) by entering into a union with another homosexual person? What harm do homosexual couples cause you, or anyone else for that matter?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2010 10:47 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2010 4:29 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 58 of 573 (582276)
09-20-2010 5:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 53 by jaywill
09-20-2010 4:29 PM
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Would you care to answer my question?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2010 4:29 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 63 of 573 (582329)
09-20-2010 8:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by jaywill
09-20-2010 7:50 PM
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In his case it was participation in the gay community. No, you ignoramus. It was UNPROTECTED SEX. YOU are just as susceptible to HIV if you have unprotected sex with random partners. It was your equation of the two that led to the assumption that you think HIV/AIDS is a gay disease. Perhaps you should find out why the disease is more prevalent in the homosexual community (hint: it isn't because they are gay).
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2010 7:50 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 65 by Modulous, posted 09-20-2010 8:30 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 66 of 573 (582333)
09-20-2010 8:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by Modulous
09-20-2010 8:30 PM
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It should also be noted that if it was a gay sister rather than a gay brother, this ignorance probably wouldn't have had such a tragic ending. Yes. I should have qualified that statement indicating the MALE homosexual community.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by Modulous, posted 09-20-2010 8:30 PM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 67 of 573 (582334)
09-20-2010 8:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by jaywill
09-20-2010 8:29 PM
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So you are against homosexuality strictly because the bible says so? You have NO other argument against it? So the equation of harm to others (when you mentioned theft) is a moot point now? IF that is indeed the case, who are you to tell people of a different faith (or a lack thereof) whether or not they can enter into a civil union? That argument really is akin to a muslim dictating to you that you cannot eat pork.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by jaywill, posted 09-20-2010 8:29 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 86 of 573 (582411)
09-21-2010 8:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 85 by jaywill
09-21-2010 6:47 AM
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Are we straying from the topic?
There are quite a few of you trying to hold my feet to the fire about whether or not the Bible has a teaching that homosexuality is an sin. Nope. YOU are saying it is. You aren't merely saying "this is just what the bible says, I have no opinion on the matter", but rather, you are injecting your own moral code when you say that homosexuals get HIV/AIDS strictly because they are gay. Now, as per the topic of the OP. The OP wished to address gay marriage, not just homosexuality. What you have done instead os went off on your personal tangent as to why being gay is bad, mmkay. {abe}
Since the expressed topic of this thread is "Condemn Gay Marriage, or Just Gay Rape" maybe I should stop posting to this thread, I think the condemnation part has been adaquately explained. You haven't even addressed the topic. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 85 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 6:47 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 89 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 11:21 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 92 of 573 (582441)
09-21-2010 11:44 AM
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Reply to: Message 89 by jaywill
09-21-2010 11:21 AM
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Re: Are we straying from the topic?
I was merely pointing out that you are not addressing the topic. You have NOT even mentioned what the bible says about gay marriage (which is the topic of the thread). All you have done is say why you think being homosexual is wrong and used your interpretation of the bible to convey that message. We get it: you think being homosexual is wrong because your reading of the bible tells you it's wrong. That is not the topic of the thread. You've made claims which you have not backed up, starting with Message 45 where you equated homosexuality to theft and made the claim that somehow, someone gets hurt by people being homosexual. You then went on to claim that being gay causes people to die from AIDS. If you care to discuss what the bible says specifically about homosexual MARRIAGE, be my guest, since that is the topic. Now, if you would like to start a topic where you make your case why you think you have the right to dictate what other people do because of YOUR religion, feel free and I will join you. However, I am pretty sure topics like that exist already.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 11:21 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 94 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 12:42 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 96 of 573 (582460)
09-21-2010 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 94 by jaywill
09-21-2010 12:42 PM
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Re: Are we straying from the topic?
Having said that it is true that homosexuality CAN cause AIDS. No it can not and it is ignorant for you to say so. Let me spell it out for you so even you can understand: AIDS is NOT spread via homosexuality. It is a SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE WHICH DOES NOT CARE WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS! Have you bothered to research WHY there is a higher prevalence of HIV/AIDS among homosexual males? Your continuance of the matter that people are afflicted with AIDS simply because they are gay is deplorable and shows you really have no interest in the matter other than to spread fear and ignorance. As far as your verses regarding what you think the bible says about marriage, it says NOTHING about homosexual marriage. If you would be so kind as to point me to a verse that states that homosexual marriage is an abomination or a sin, we could continue.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 12:42 PM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 2:07 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 108 of 573 (582491)
09-21-2010 3:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by jaywill
09-21-2010 2:07 PM
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Re: Are we straying from the topic?
Notice the third to fifth syllables on the word "homo SEXUALITY". The SEXAULITY realm of homosexuality can be a cause of the sexual transmission of AIDS. Are you being ignorant on purpose? It has been pointed out to you why your line of reasoning is so wrong, but you continue to be wrong about it.
I don't think it changes the overall picture of homosexuality being identified as a matter spoken against by the Scripture. Ie. something from which man needs to be saved. I don't think anyone is arguing that the writers of the books you call the bible had something against queers (at least I'm not, anyways). It's obvious that they did and the people that follow what those books say cannot accept people for who they are. What is not so clear is what those books say on homosexual marriage. I notice you went ahead and assumed that since they speak so negatively about male homosexual behavior, they also mean gay marriage is bad. Can we also assume that lesbians are ok and unicorns are real (see Numbers 23:22, 24:8, Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9-12, Psalms 22:21, Psalms 29:6, Psalms 92:10, Isaiah 34:7, for example. KJV, of course.)? I mean, I have to yet to see anywhere in the bible that mentions female on female relations.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 2:07 PM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 109 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 5:48 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 110 of 573 (582512)
09-21-2010 6:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 109 by jaywill
09-21-2010 5:48 PM
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Re: Are we straying from the topic?
I'll put more weight into the KJV, thanks. Unless your version is....better? I digress, this thread isn't about mythical creatures in a book of myths. Is Romans 1:26 sufficient in an argument against lesbians getting married? It is simply stating that "yep, there are some pagan lesbians in Rome and god is just letting them do their thing". {abe} I just found this article regarding this passage. Apparently it is used pretty widely against homosexuality. What does the Arch Bishop of Canterbury have to say?
"Many current ways of reading miss the actual direction of the passage. Paul is making a primary point not about homosexuality but about the delusions of the supposedly law-abiding. [These lines are] for the majority of modern readers the most important single text in Scripture on the subject of homosexuality."
Source Then, we can look at Romans 2:1:
Romans 2:1 writes: 1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. Judge not lest ye be judged, eh? Edited by hooah212002, : there /= their correction Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 5:48 PM | | jaywill has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 113 of 573 (582533)
09-21-2010 9:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 111 by jaywill
09-21-2010 7:22 PM
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Did you really just go on about a word that is not even in the original text, but rather, in the commentary? Did you also quote a commentary and try to pass it off as a bible verse? ( Message 101 where you first brought up 2 Peter 2:6). I'm sorry if I feel it is now patently obvious that you are stretching the text to suit your needs and fit your moral standard.
"Lincentious manner of life" write the Apostle Peter. No, he did not. The commentator did. Not only are you quoting verses using commentary and saying this is found in the bible, you are using someone else's interpretation. For shame.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by jaywill, posted 09-21-2010 7:22 PM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 115 by jaywill, posted 09-22-2010 6:34 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 125 of 573 (582586)
09-22-2010 8:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 119 by jaywill
09-22-2010 7:51 AM
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From jaywill's Recovery Version he himself linked to 2 peter 2:6 in the Recovery Version writes: And having reduced to ashes the cities of aSodom and Gomorrah, condemned them to 1ruin, having set them as an bexample to those who intend to 2live an ungodly life, Do you see "licentious manner of life"? What kind of shit are you trying to pull here?
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by jaywill, posted 09-22-2010 7:51 AM | | jaywill has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 127 of 573 (582589)
09-22-2010 9:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 115 by jaywill
09-22-2010 6:34 AM
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Christians do not regard the New Testament as a error prone and faulty "commentary" on the Hebrew Bible. We regard the New Testament as the divine oracles of God, the authoritative revelation on the same level as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus or any of the 39 Old Testament books. No, you dolt. I was not referring to the NT as commentary on the Hebrew bible, nor did what I say even come close to implying that. Try and READ what I write. I have YET to find a version where this "Peter" uses the word licentious or even the phrase "licentious manner of life", for that matter. The ONLY place I can find that word is in commentary at bible.cc, as I said already.
My moral standard includes the realization that I am a sinner in need of Christ's salvation just as every other man and woman on the earth. In myself I am good for nothing but the lake of fire. I am a sinner saved by grace alone. My alledged "anti-gayness" which you seek to label me with, does nothing to justify me before God. I and every other sinner, heterosexual or homosexual, needs the blood of Jesus to remove the guilt of sin and the cross of Jesus to put to death the old man and the Spirit of Jesus to rise and walk in newness of life, to serve God in newness of spirit. Wow dude. That's pathetic. Different topic though.
You are quite mistaken. I do not have Greek fonts on my PC. However, Second Peter 2:7 has the word defined in the Greek New Testament Dictionary edited by Bruce Metzger (among others) as "sensuality, indecency, vice" . That is the word supplied in my English version as licentious. And I notice that it is also in the NIV Interlinear Greek / English New Testament. Could you provide some links, please? Any translation service or bible worth it's salt, IMO, would be online, since it IS 2010. As it stands, like Huntard, I have yet to find any versions of the bible that uses that word.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by jaywill, posted 09-22-2010 6:34 AM | | jaywill has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 132 by jaywill, posted 09-22-2010 10:42 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 129 of 573 (582592)
09-22-2010 9:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 118 by Huntard
09-22-2010 7:36 AM
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Genesis 19:4 and 5. KJV, of course. writes: 4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. It implies they intended for homosexual intercourse with the angels (provided those angels were male and not eunuchs). That's all I could find, anyways.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 118 by Huntard, posted 09-22-2010 7:36 AM | | Huntard has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 130 by frako, posted 09-22-2010 10:05 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 131 of 573 (582601)
09-22-2010 10:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 130 by frako
09-22-2010 10:05 AM
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That's what is great about the bible: you can read it however you want and no one can really tell you that your interpretation is wrong! I will say this though: it explicitly states that the men of the city wanted to "know" them while recognizing the angels as men.
"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by frako, posted 09-22-2010 10:05 AM | | frako has not replied |
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