Is God good?

I wrote and it was objected to: The aftermath of Joshua's victories are a lot less gruesome than the annals of the ancient Near East major empires. That is the Hittite and Egyptian of the 2nd millennium BC, the Aramaean, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian or Greek of the 1rst millennium BC.Ashurnasirpal II (883-859 BC) - His annals discribed the flaying of live victims, the impaling of others on poles, and building up heaps of body parts for a showy display.They boasted of gouging out the eyes of enemy troops.
They bragged about cutting off their ears and limbs.
Severed heads were displayed around the city.The harshest battles of the Hebrews in the Canaanite conquest were defensive -1.) The Amalekites first attacked Israel from behind to cut down the stragglers and weariest and lamb and sick among the Jews \[b\](Exodus 17:8 ). The Amalekites received a harsh sentence in comparison to other enemies.2.) Arad attacked and captured some Isralites (Num. 21:1).3.) The Amorite king Sidon rebuffed peaceful overtures from Israel. Instead he attacked (Num 21:21-32; Deut. 2:26-30). Isreal extends an olive branch and Sihon attacks in response.4.) The Midianites conspired to mass fornication and slyly seducing the Jews into idolatry (Num. 31:2-3; 25; 31:16) That is the slyest calculated immorality to draw them away from God.5. Five kings attacked Gibeon with whom Joshua had made a peace pact with (Josh. 10:4)At the same time God prohibited a unrestrained land grab. They were told by God not to bother the Moabites and the Ammonites (Deut. 2:9, 19) Yet they had earlier refused to assist the Israelites (Num. 20:14-21; compare Deut. 2:6-8).Israel had no right to conquer BEYOND what God had ordained them to possess. So sure, I speak of God's mercy even in the judging of the nations.It can be proved, I think, that the main objective was DISPERSION and destruction of the religious centers. God would drive out rather than terminate many of the Canaanites. "I will send My terror ahead of you, and throw into confusion all the people among whom you come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you. I will ... DRIVE OUT the Hivites, the Canaanites, and the Hittites before you.

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I will not drive them out before you in a single year ...

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I will DRIVE THEM OUT before you little by little ...." (See Exodus 23:27-30) Drive out is not exterminate by killing. It is to disperse from their evil centers of worship.In some cases the hardest of the hard as combatants were slaughtered. But driving out or dispossessing is different from wiping out in total destruction. Expulsion was not annhhilation. And we see that instruction of dispossessing in Exodus 34:24; Num. 32:21; Deut. 4:38) .The Canaanite conquest is nuanced and detail needs to be noted in a case by case way. Yes I see SOME mercy in the laws and in the actions carried out even in the conquest of Canaan.Joshua's dealing with Rehab and the house hold of the harlot at Jericho is seen by me as merciful.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Correct, it is called "Ethnic Cleansing", genocide.

I did of course quote "that thou wouldest have her to thy wife", as everyone can see. So congratulations on combining stupidity, dishonesty, and hypocrisy. I did not deny that after the woman was kidnapped, she was to be forced into marriage; on the contrary, the quotation I supplied makes this quite clear. I merely maintain that this is an example of kidnapping sanctioned by the Bible --- which it is. You yourself describe it as "the capturing of the enemy's women", so you have not even attempted to deny my point, preferring to make yourself ridiculous with your pitiful whinging about imaginary "dishonesty".Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

The Persians, eh? Did any of the peoples conquered by Joshua show a similar enthusiasm for him? Did they call him "God's shepherd" and say that "God would go before him and level the mountains"? Oh, right, they were dead weren't they? Otherwise they would doubtless have praised his mercy, his policy of reconciliation, and his religious tolerance. You could make a slogan out of that. "Jehovah --- Not Quite As Evil As The Assyrians."It's not saying much though. Nor am I. No-one worships me.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

And since the Ten Commandments say "thou shalt not kill" the people killed in the wars of the Israelites must not then be considered dead.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

The Hebrew says Thou shalt not Murder.A murder is an illegal killing, while War is authorized by declarations on both sides and then the "game" begins.

You interpret the events as if God did these things.
The Bible clearly tells us that God made some men who will behave as the Herbrew patriarchs did.While the same God made other men, Gentiles. They were the victims in this case.
They are more feminized, less violent and aggressive in regard to invading the lands of the partiarchies around them.
They are rich and successful societies disinterested in these rag tag patriarchs outside their gates.Its like the rich sexually promiscuous gentiles of Western Europe/America, today, compared to the muslims who obey Sharia which they all say God spoke out for them as His Law.It all seems true, just as the Bible says, feminized Gentiles Vs misogynistic partiarchs.The Battle of the Sexes, Matriarchy Vs Patriarchy, isn't it, Doctor?.
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.Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away (in the spirit of thought), into the wilderness (of my imagination) and I saw (as if) a woman, ....... (those who have Institutionalized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (of a brazen and corrupt sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), full of names of (Pagan) blasphemy, having seven heads:
(which existed in (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Persia/Mede, (5) Greece, (6) Rome (7) the whole of Western Culture to follow)... ... having ten horns upon these seven heads:
(1. Undivided Empire; capital Rome: [305 AD],2. Western Roman Empire: (Romulus Augustus): [to 476 AD],3. Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [1453 AD]4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]6. Italy, [Renaissance, 16th century]7. Spain, [17th century]8. France, [18th-19th Century]9. Britain, [19th-20th century]10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])11. America next?

Yes. That certainly throws absolute right and wrong out the window. The god of the Levites seems to be content with itsy-bitsy improvements instead of outright repentence. That's why the commandment says, "Thou shalt not kill as many people as thou did last week." No kidding. Another way of preventing starvation is by feeding people.

No it does not.When people complain about the concept of a transcendent law of morality that is absolute, I think what they are really complaining about is the impracticality of actually living according to that.God has made provision for our having inevitably sinned against His law through the salvation of Christ - "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." God's intructions to Moses to take a fallen and sin poisoned people, to have a relatively more just civlization is benevolent and righteous of Him, in the mean time.Man needs some leading progressively to the concept of grace in the Savior Christ.You see Ringo, in the fall of man, man thinks he is OK - "Oh, if I have fallen out of a proper relationship with God, well then, I'll just fix that up real quick with no problem."In the progressive revelation of the Bible God has to school the man. Man has destroyed the relationship but he cannot fix it. God has to come in to fix it.In God's progressive revelation of man's real state and His own nature, He also makes provision in the theocracy of Israel for a relatively more just society.Concerning slave, women, many of His laws reveal some movement for a more just society than surrounding ancient cultures. Come on Ringo. All the atoning offerings are related to repentence. War was an inevitable possibility. War was going to happen - Israel's fault, someone else's fault, maybe no one's fault. God knew that war, like poverty and divorce, were realities which would occur.Though we do have the commandment "Thou Shalt do no murder" we do have rules of warfare for the theocracy of Israel.It surprises me a bit that some posters don't appreciate that rules for a civil situation and those for a military engagement situation may differ.Now having said this, it should be appreciated that there were the priests and the judges to discern tricky and difficult situations of ethics. This was not a computer program from heaven.Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses and priest of Midian first advized Moses to appoint helpers to judge cases (Exodus 18:15-27)

" Listen now to my voice: I will give you counsel, and God be with you. You stand for the people before God, and you bring matters to God. And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and make known to them the way in which they should walk and the work that they should do.

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You also should look for able men among all the people who fear God, men of truth, who hate unjest gain; and place them over them, as leaders of thousands, leaders of hundreds, leaders of fifties, and leaders of tens.

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And let them judge the people at all times; and let them bring every great matter to you, but every small matter let them judge themselves.... And Moses chose able men out of all Israel ... And they judged the people at all times; the HARD CASES THEY BROUGHT TO MOSES, but every small matter they judged themselves." (See Exo. 18:19-26) The point here and afterward with the priests and judges is that it evident that "HARD CASES" arose, nuanced cases, cases among soldiers and captive women, cases of slaves, etc.The laws of Moses overlapped sometime in the consideration of the judges and hopefully wise priests. In this theocracy different situations and circumstances entered into the considerations of the judges - ordinances about kidnapping with ordinances about marriage of male female encounters.No one should read Leviticus and throw up their hands that this was an impossible system to live in. Aside from matters judged by hopefully wise and discerning men, you had customs and laws of a civil nature in the Israelite society.It was not a utopia. But it was a theocracy with many moves in it towards a more just society. That the word has this negativity to us needs to be mentioned. BECAUSE Dept Servitude could actually be a noble thing. And these indentured servants were called "slaves" in many English translations of the Bible. It was an employee / employer relationship.This does not garuantee ALL slave master's were just. See Jacob and Laban in Genesis.Indentured servitude in the ancient Near East and at other times could be a respectable manner of paying off ones depts. The "BIBLE WANTS SLAVERY !!!" crowd needs to sometimes know that historical perspective. Shortage of food was also an occasional fact of life. It will happen this side of the millennium and the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21,22) when all evil is put away, like war.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

As in secular society, differences were recognized from civil actions and those in military conflicts.We have civil courts and military courts recognizing the circumstances and situations differ.Sometime cases were difficult. We see that "hard cases" (Exodus 18:26) occured. Wise judges and wise and godly priests of ancient Israel were to help the people in hard cases. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

There is no fall of man in the Bible.

Maybe you man that mean needs some leading to accept God's grace. Grace would be meaningless if you needed enlightenment to obtain it. You see, you keep describing your own theology in terms that expose it as evil. What you're describing is like a fireman putting out a fire a little bit at a time or a doctor curing a disease a little bit at a time. Their inability to prevent suffering all at once should not be projected onto an omnipotent God. And blaming the victim is, again, downright evil. What does atonement have to do with repentence? To repent, all you have to do is stop. I didn't say a word about war. I said that your idea of stopping slavery a little bit at a time is the same as murdering a few less people than you did last week. Nor do all drunk drivers kill people. Yet we do ban all drunk driving because of the potential danger. We hope to prevent deaths. But your "good" god with his "absolute justice" is content to have the drivers a little less drunk.

I don't follow this. "Grace would be meaningless if you needed enightenment to obtain it."Why?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

What would Cyrus had been had not Daniel been praying for the situation of the Babylonian Captivity ?Probably the mercy of Cyrus we will owe in great part to the prayers of men like Daniel for the dispersed Jews. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Its an interesting point. But Jesus really is the same as Joshua.Any further discussion of Cyrus would lead me to want to open up a new thread on the book of Isaiah.That is the positive types of Christ in Isaiah which include the prophet Isaiah himself, Cyrus, Israel as the suffering servant, and the prophecy of Christ as the Suffering Servant of Isa. 53.In that book, yes, Cyrus is deemed a positive servant of God, mainly because he is used by God to get His original purpose for the Jews back on track -The land, the city, and the temple as the theocratic center of the earth. In that regard God positively uses the Gentile king Cyrus and even calls him before he is born, by name.But, note that JESUS is the Greek equivalent of JOSHUA. So the name Joshua is quite positive in the Bible. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.