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Author | Topic: Christianity is Morally Bankrupt | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
How come there is room for you to disagree with other Christians who absolutely know, I'm going straight to hell without passing go? He might be honest. It really is that simple.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: He might be honest. It really is that simple. I think he is, and it is simple. He's just saying what he personally prefers to believe. As other who share the same belief prefer to believe someting different and there's no actual evidence for either, there's not much more to be said.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: You seem to want a definitive answer as to what eternity will be like for you. That's not the purpose of my question. I obviously don't belive in anything to do with heaven and hell. I'm trying to understand why believers do and debate whether hell is a morally bankrupt Christian idea. From what has been said so far, the concept of hell is utterly unjust and immoral. Not only that, no-one can even agree on what it is or how to avoid it.
Nobody can give you that answer which is an answer in itself. Yes it it. And the obvious answer is that it's a myth. Like all the others in your book. I fail to see how any rational person can reach a different conclusion.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
This thread isn't about the validity of a belief. As best as can be determined the originator argued that certain Christian doctrines are immoral in his opinion. (See Message 1)
Biblically speaking, we are all going to hell.
Hell is the Grave
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
purpedawn writes:
I've been arguing from the standpoint of gods existing. Who said the afterlife was fair by our standards? How can a God be unfair by our standards and still be regarded as moral by us? If morality is defined as anything a god decides is moral for him, it serves no purpose for us. "Do as I say, not as I do" is not nomally regarded as the Christian message.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Do I really have to ask all my questions twice????
quote:We are talking about the afterlife. As far as I know, religions are the only ones with standards concerning the afterlife. Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the Lord. Biblically speaking, the wicked are punished. Unfortunately in this thread we working with what beliefs have become or what the originator thinks the belief is, not necessarily biblical.
quote:I didn't change the meaning of morality. It still means a doctrine of system of moral conduct. In our society, there is the idea that the wicked are to be punished. The Hell belief isn't any different. So back to my question: How does any of the issues you mentioned in Message 125 go against the moral standards or conduct of our society? (I'm in the US.) Please show support that any of this deals with the Christian system. What immoral actions does the belief in a fiery hell cause??????
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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purpledawn writes: Do I really have to ask all my questions twice???? I've answered your question. And it's off topic. If you want to discuss how Christianity is bad for society, start a thread.
Biblically speaking, the wicked are punished. Unfortunately in this thread we working with what beliefs have become or what the originator thinks the belief is, not necessarily biblical. Biblically or otherwise, it's wicked to punish people who lead good lives just because they find that the evidence for a creator is inadequate to support a belief or because they were born in the wrong country to the wrong parents. THAT is what we're discussing, whether Christianity is morally bankrupt. The concept of hell where good peope are sent for no fault of their own is the proofLife, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: Provided they were never given an option to reconsider, I might agree.... Biblically or otherwise, it's wicked to punish people who lead good lives just because they find that the evidence for a creator is inadequate to support a belief or because they were born in the wrong country to the wrong parents. The question is, if you died or were near death and Jesus suddenly appeared to you either literally or strong metaphorically and asked you to accept Him, would you defiantly continue rejecting Him based on your own "precious" yet worthless free will? Or would you reconsider..... The issue is not what a God could or would hypothetically do to you....the issue is how you would respond to Him....assuming you became aware of an undeniable possibility...at least...of His existence.
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
So which is it, do I, as a decent bloke, but an atheist, get to go to heaven or not? No. You get to go to Hell. Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
A lot depends on which destinations are available in reality.
Assuming that God exists...and further assuming relationship/acknowledgement is found only through Jesus...it would be silly to reject God and/or Jesus based on personal or societal interpretation of the Bible. The issue would involve a relationship with an active living entity. Too many people reject God based only on Biblical interpretation. Of course, for many, that's all they have to go on is the characters in a book. Assuming the ultimate decision would be made on meeting the character(of Jesus Christ) I could see no reason anyone would reject Him...unless they held their free will in higher regard....and simply chose rejecting. Edited by Phat, :
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Hey, Phat,
It's not an interpretation of the bible. I'm just following the meaning of the words. What's to interpret?The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3485 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:No you didn't. It isn't the same as the first question I had to ask twice and it is very much in line with this topic. I'm not asking how Christianity is bad for society. I'm asking for specific immoral actions as a result of the belief in Christian heaven or hell. If your position is that the belief is immoral, it really is of no consequence unless it leads to an immoral action. As I've shown earlier in the thread, humans can't send anyone to Christian hell. So there is no human immoral action associated with this belief. As far as I know there isn't any moral code or law that says a god can't do what he wants with the dead. I've also shown evidence that the idea of eternal punishment is incorrect when examining the text. So one feels an erroneous belief is unfair and immoral. Who cares unless it manifests itself as immoral acts in the real world? My question: How do any of the issues you mentioned in Message 125 go against the moral standards or conduct of our society today? Please show support that any of this deals with the Christian system. What immoral actions does the belief in a fiery hell cause???
quote:Seriously! Show me that that is the doctrine of Hell. You don't have any more support for your view of it than the Christians who are off in their thinking. quote:That's your concept. Show support for it in the Christian teachings of today. If the Christian system takes no actions that go against the moral standards of society due to the beliefs, then it isn't morally bankrupt. Just because someone doesn't like the belief and feels it is unjust, doesn't make it immoral.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Provided they were never given an option to reconsider, I might agree....The question is, if you died or were near death and Jesus suddenly appeared to you either literally or strong metaphorically and asked you to accept Him, would you defiantly continue rejecting Him based on your own "precious" yet worthless free will? Or would you reconsider..... The issue is not what a God could or would hypothetically do to you....the issue is how you would respond to Him....assuming you became aware of an undeniable possibility...at least...of His existence. So that's the test now is it? It's a new one on me. Where did it come from? How would it work? Why would I suddenly believe a metaphor? What's the point of faith if he suddenly presents himself uncontrovertibly?Why would anyone deny his existence if he provided proof? I have a feeling you're making this stuff up as you go.... (By the way, freewill has nothing to do, that's just another piece of religious bunkum.)Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
purpledawn, we're debating this, the original proposition:
grimskeaker writes: I propose that Christianity is essentially a morally bankrupt system. My reasoning is as follows; 2 - Heaven and Hell are Unjust. We can get onto what YOU want to talk about, when we're done arguing about whether the concept of heaven and hell is unjust. So far, there's been no agreement at all between the Christians here about: 1. what hell is and what it entails2. how/if a person can avoid it 3. whether a good person can be sent there But, on balance, it seems to me that whatever the thing is, hell is a bad place and that God will send a person to it whether they have lead a good life or not, even if they've never heard of him. That is defacto unjust and therefor immoral.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But the important part, the "honest" part, is that he understands that it is a matter of his belief while there are those who would claim that they "know".
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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