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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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As you are reading, don't forget that the calibration curves are designed to account for atmospheric fluctuations.
It has been known for many years that the levels of C14 in the atmosphere vary due to changes in the sun's output and the earth's magnetic field, etc. Those changes that cause the atmospheric levels to vary by several percent, with the maximum around 10%. This is the reason for comparison of raw C14 ages with items of known age, such as tree rings, corals, and glacial varves. Once the differences due to atmospheric fluctuation are known, the curve allows unknown samples to be corrected or "calibrated" to produce accurate dates. Edited by Coyote, : SpellingReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Your responses are failing to show a grasp of the radiocarbon method, but a firm grasp of creation "science."
See my post on "what-ifs."Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Please read the posts in this thread.
There are a lot of good papers by real scientists. It doesn't matter what some climatologists did or didn't say, that doesn't mean anything in terms of what the physical scientists are doing. So, read the posts in this thread and explain why there are so many correlations.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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In the other thread mindspawn writes:
Its not that all of science is wrong, its just that a few categories of science are based on 1) radiometric dating (does have scientific backing, but too many assumptions and also a head in the sand approach) ... So you feel that radiometric dating is wrong because it has "too many assumptions?" Why do you, and other creationists, feel that those assumptions are automatically wrong? Do you have any evidence that they are wrong, other than they come up with answers you don't like for entirely unrelated reasons? And as RAZD points out, all of the various dating methods are pointing in the same direction even though they rely on far different datasets and far different assumptions. How can you explain this? I think you are just blowing smoke here, and that you really have no evidence that the assumptions are wrong, but are just using that to be able to discount 1) radiometric dating methods, and 2) the sciences that are based on them. But if you would like to debate the issue, this is the place. One of my areas is radiocarbon dating if you would like to concentrate on that.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Tree rings don't determine the age of trees. Carbon-14 does, and I believe carbon-14 date don't match tree ring dating.
There are several good threads here on C14 dating and methods of corroboration. You should check them out before expounding further. Oh, and please tell us how many C14 samples you have submitted in your career.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Yet there are also other issues like water, and that you can't carbon date any corpse accurately. I'd like to see your sources for that, as I've carbon dated many dozen bones, including human bones.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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My general impressions of dendrochronology is that it is just stupid. You can't find the age of a tree by counting rings, but you can find the half-life of C-14 with a Geiger counter. And thus you carbon date the tree instead. Incorrect in two out of three. You can find the age of a tree by counting rings. Different climatic events, such as volcanoes, leave distinctive rings, and these correlate with the correct ages. You can't find the half-life of C14 with a Geiger counter. All you can do is determine, from the beta decay, the amount of C14 present. But you are right, in that you can carbon date individual tree rings. That is what has been done to establish the calibration curve. Care to try again, on some subject about which you actually know something?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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You still haven't revealed to us how many C14 samples you have submitted in your career.
My guess is 0. Further, my guess is that virtually your entire (un)knowledge of the radiocarbon method comes from creationist websites.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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No, my knowledge about it comes from a medical pdf, and some physics stuff which is in depth enough. I know that the human body actively expels Carbon-14, but I can't find the documentation. If it ia anything to you, I don't believe it proves the age of the earth, or of anything other than a piece of paper. You better find your "medical pdf" as I have never heard of such an effect. Perhaps you are thinking of isotopic fractionation? Added by edit: And you are correct, C14 dating does not prove the age of the earth. It goes back some 50,000 years. The age of the earth is some 4.52 billion years, and is measured with other tools. Edited by Coyote, : Added commentReligious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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"It doesn't change the isotope, but it does expel it. Thus it has a body half life. I know by Isotopic Labeling."
And this is something applied to living individuals?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I might be thinking fractionalization. I know Carbon-14 doesn't like water either. Might you be thinking of the reservoir effect? When are you going to realize that some of us know far more about this than you do?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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OS -- have you researched isotropic fractionation and the reservoir effect, as I suggested in previous posts?
I think this would clear up a few (of many) misconceptions.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I don't have good reason to say dating dinosaur bones with the method is terrible. Why would you ever think of dating something that is >65 million years old with a tool that only goes back 50,000 years? That's like trying to use a 12 inch ruler to measure the distance to the moon--it just doesn't work.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I think it has more to do with bodily processes, but I am thinking I confused myself about results from corpses and wood. You really should do a thorough review of the basic literature on C14. You are confusing different concepts pretty badly.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Note: I haven't verified the links lately.
ReligiousTolerance.org Carbon-14 Dating (C-14): Beliefs of New-Earth Creationists Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against. |
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