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Author | Topic: The Marketing Of Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can choose to pretend to believe something that you really know to be false. In retrospect, I don't think I was ever a True believer but it was easier to go with the flow.
I assumed that belief was a choice....
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You contradict yourself. If there is "no definite evidence" that IS a solid 100% case. If there was ANY definite evidence, it would be less than 100%. My point is that there is no definite evidence and thus the conclusion is that you decided not to believe. Its not as if you had a solid 100% case for doing so. But I'm not even the one who says there's "no definite evidence". I'm just saying there isn't enough evidence to make the case for God, etc. plausible. Bigfoot is more plausible than God but I don't believe he exists. Even leprechauns are more plausible than God.
Phat writes:
Your mind is wrong. If the evidence should be there but isn't, that's evidence of absence. The only excuse you have for the lack of evidence is that God is hiding, which is ridiculously lame.
Remember that I reject Crashfrogs mantra: The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence in my mind.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I was just the opposite. I felt a sense of relief much like the descriptions of "salvation" that I had heard all my life.
... I felt a pang of loss when I gave it up as a teenager... Faith writes:
I was definitely not influenced by peer pressure. To this day I've hardly ever met a professing atheist face to face. All of the peer pressure has been in the opposite direction.
... under the influence of "enlightened" sophisticated friends....
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'd like to hear your objections.
ringo writes:
I'd love to hear your rationale for this one! I'm just saying there isn't enough evidence to make the case for God, etc. plausible. Bigfoot is more plausible than God but I don't believe he exists. Even leprechauns are more plausible than God.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Aquinas writes:
Why not?
It could not be the cause of itself. Aquinas writes:
Why not?
It could not come from nothing. Aquinas writes:
Why not? It could not be an effect in an infinite series of causes and effects And, of course, what Aquinas misses is that all of those could-nots also apply to God.
Phat writes:
No, you would assert that. If you have an actual argument, present it.
I would argue that it is more plausible to believe in an infinite God Creator rather than an infinite pilotless and self-creating universe.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
There's always a chance that you'll win the lottery - but is it a good investment?
They wont take away my probability, however. I simply wont let go.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can only win if you bet on Zeus.
I take the truth statement: Somebody will win and switch its true implication into my own statement, namely I will win.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You should be thinking about why you care about logic or probability at all.
Im still trying to figure out how logical people have concluded that the probability of a Creator of all seen and unseen is small.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He also often referred to "your Father" so I don't see any significance beyond grammar.
Jesus also always referred to GOD as "My Father" rather than "Our father"... wonder why?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Need moar communion.
Perhaps I dont trust that His Will is for me to have to struggle.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
But in Message 471 you said:
ringo writes:
All that atonement is is introspection. The "fall" itself is evidence of guilt. God doomed every subsequent generation of humans to atone for Adam and Eve's "sin".quote:Which is it? You have to work to get into Hell? Or lack of introspection gets you into Hell?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It seems to me that most people have to work at NOT being selfish, proud, vain, ignorant, etc. Those tendencies are the excuse for concepts like The Fall and Original Sin. We know we have those tendencies but fundies like to think that "the Creator of all seen and unseen" didn't create them.
To me, I would have to work to get there. Work on being selfish. Work on being proud and vain. Work on being ignorant of the reality surrounding my fellow man and myself.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Sure. And if I dig a tiger trap in my front yard, all I'm creating is the "possibility" of trapping tigers. (Since there aren't many tigers around here, the probability is that I'll catch children instead.)
All that He created was the possibility of them. Phat writes:
That says it all, doesn't it?
I refuse to be left holding the bag for how my life turns out....
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's not what I meant. You said that you refuse to take responsibility. Believing in God has little to do with that.
Phat writes:
Yes, basically it does. I will forever remain a believer,hopefully. I refuse to be left holding the bag for how my life turns out....ringo writes: That says it all, doesn't it? Phat writes:
As I've said before, it's the payoff that I don't want.
Perhaps the probability of God (and a friendly One at that) is a billion to one, but think of the payoff!
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think I ever said that. You said before that even as a child you never wanted to take the responsibility of surrendering yourself to God... It's self-contradictory, isn't it? How is surrendering yourself to God taking responsibility?
Phat writes:
I didn't make any choice. My beliefs evaporated on their own. As I've said many, many times before, if there was a choice to make, I would have chosen to keep them.
Its not that atheists have no beliefs. They believe that they have made the right choice.
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