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Author Topic:   Chance as a sole-product of the Universe
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 231 of 263 (857403)
07-08-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Stile
07-08-2019 10:40 AM


Re: Not A Chance
OK, I'll go with your argument. Explain to me why chance is "something" rather than nothing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Stile, posted 07-08-2019 10:40 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by AZPaul3, posted 07-08-2019 11:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:27 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 235 of 263 (861460)
08-21-2019 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by ringo
07-06-2019 12:19 PM


Re: Not A Chance
This is a better podcast that more fully explains Sprouls logic.(or as AZ Paul3 claims, ignorance. )
Chance:The Modern Myth

And all that Genesis 3:22 says is that we humans gaine the knowledge of knowing both good and evil. This is hardly giving us any sort of divine status nor elevating us into Deity status. In my mind, the evidence these days shows that we are not clear on which is which. Scripture even confirms this:

Prov 14:12 writes:

There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
NKJV


Repeated later in Proverbs:
Prov 16:25-17:1 writes:

25 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.

26 The person who labors, labors for himself,
For his hungry mouth drives him on.

27 An ungodly man digs up evil,
And it is on his lips like a burning fire.
28 A perverse man sows strife,
And a whisperer separates the best of friends.
29 A violent man entices his neighbor,
And leads him in a way that is not good.
30 He winks his eye to devise perverse things;
He purses his lips and brings about evil.

31 The silver-haired head is a crown of glory,
If it is found in the way of righteousness.

32 He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty,
And he who rules his spirit than he who takes a city.

33 The lot is cast into the lap,
But its every decision is from the LORD. NKJV

That last one is directed at me, the compulsive gambler. There is no such thing as chance. My problem is that I want to force Gods will (through prayer and pleading)to favor me...a desire that i am in no power to bring about. God is a God of tough love. Probably wants me to end up nearly broke like you, giving away all my spare change. Dont you ever think about your need to retire and realize that you cant count on the state or the people to support you? I do...which is why I get stressed and gamble...oddly counting on God...but according to *my* terms. Im learning, though.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by ringo, posted 07-06-2019 12:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by ringo, posted 08-21-2019 3:56 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 236 of 263 (861461)
08-21-2019 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Stile
07-16-2019 1:27 PM


Re: Not A Chance
What I mean is that probability is strictly measured...when they make random chip generators for slot machines or print a million lottery tickets, there is a known probability of precisely which ones will be winners and how much they will pay. It is predetermined. The universe, if it arose solely by chance, would arise from a mindless math concept that had, according to you, a set probability.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:27 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Tangle, posted 08-21-2019 4:35 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 249 by Stile, posted 08-22-2019 12:07 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 237 of 263 (861462)
08-21-2019 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Stile
07-16-2019 1:27 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Chance - and probability, are the likelihoods of possible outcomes.
Probability is predetermined. Its value is set.

Chance is by definition not predetermined....at least not by humans. If you wish to argue that chance (that created the universe) was predetermined, you need to explain Who or What determined and/or set the probability into concrete terms.

Listen to the audio that I sent ringo: Chance:The Modern Myth And AZPaul3, igf you are watching, explain to me if you still think Sprouls argument is deceitful and why. Stile, you can chime in also. I want an opportunity to examine any vacuousness of the claim.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Stile, posted 07-16-2019 1:27 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Stile, posted 08-22-2019 12:12 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 251 by AZPaul3, posted 08-22-2019 12:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 253 of 263 (861578)
08-23-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by jar
08-22-2019 6:43 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Sproul is dead, by the way. But essentially are you saying that Sproul makes simple things mysterious? Simple answers are not complete. You say that God lied. I say that the answer surely *must* be deeper, since we already know that God cannot lie nor would have any need to lie.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 08-22-2019 6:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by ringo, posted 08-23-2019 12:11 PM Phat has replied
 Message 257 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 1:14 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 255 of 263 (861583)
08-23-2019 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by ringo
08-23-2019 12:11 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Scripture tells us. Also common sense. There is no rational reason nor need for God to lie.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by ringo, posted 08-23-2019 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by ringo, posted 08-23-2019 12:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 258 of 263 (861600)
08-23-2019 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by jar
08-23-2019 1:14 PM


Re: Not A Chance
Oh stop with your Faith display of Capital Letters! I was talking to ringo, who also buys that. And the serpant did not tell us the whole truth. We became "like God" or like one of us...only in that we became aware of the difference between good and evil. It is patently ridiculous for any created thing to become "like God". Even the serpent is a poor imitation. It is evident, however, that in today's world there are many imitative spirits, or vibes, or traits that mimic Jesus Christ yet are far from Him. God Himself may hollar from some mountain to stop misrepresenting Him. You, on the other hand, have no such authority.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 1:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 3:10 PM Phat has replied
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 08-23-2019 5:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 263 by PaulK, posted 08-24-2019 5:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 16079
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 260 of 263 (861606)
08-23-2019 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by jar
08-23-2019 3:10 PM


Re: Not A Chance
But as I told you before and which is evident if you read who I was replying to, I was not even talking to or about you.

Add By Edit: Oops. I *was* talking to you. OK, I stand corrected.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by jar, posted 08-23-2019 3:10 PM jar has not replied

  
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