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Author | Topic: Did the Flood really happen? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: So you don’t even care that I have strong reasons for considering the Flood story a myth. And you obviously can’t answer them. And the fact that you can’t write decent posts - that you deliberately curtail them to avoid making your ideas clear is no reason for me to emulate you. If I did that constructive discussion would be impossible.
quote: It could do but so what? Where is the relevance?
quote: Because you need a - much - shorter year to account for the supposed longevity. A longer year is no good at all. If the years of Noah’s age are even longer than our years the problem gets worse, not better (and if they are our years then the problem remains). Of course the whole idea that the Earth’s orbit has changed that much in the relatively short period of time available is daft anyway. How could it happen? Where is the evidence? So let me be clear again. If you want to be scientific about this you need to construct a sufficiently detailed scenario that we can examine it. Your vagueness doesn’t even rise to the level of inventing fiction.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: Only if there is an actual problem. An assertion in a story written long after the supposed events isn’t even as good as anecdotal evidence - and anecdotal evidence is too weak to be worth anything.
quote: That there was a world-wide flood in recent geological history has already been examined and dismissed by science. The practical problems of getting pairs of all the species on the Ark, with the necessary supplies, and of keeping them alive for a year is equally implausible. Then there is the problem of accounting for the observed biogeographic diversity. And we can throw in Noah’s age which you yourself claim to be biologically impossible for a normal human and the origin of the Rainbow. Hey, we can even throw in the Curse of Ham, the mythical justification for the Hebrews ens,a night their fellow Canaanites, too. If an implausible element occurs in an obvious myth why should it not be considered part of the myth? That is the sensible way to treat it - unless you have other evidence. And you don’t.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: You wanted to know why why I considered Noah’s age a feature of the myth. It was necessary to talk about the rest of the story to explain that. Again, the fact that you don’t like what I am saying - and cannot answer it - does not render it useless or irrelevant.
quote: My answers to your vague assertions - they do not deserve to be called arguments - is in an earlier series of posts I made to this thread.
quote: By which you mean I am too good, and you are threatening to run away because of it.
quote: Given that you started doing that very quickly I think it was already your habit.
quote: There is nothing uncivilised about my posts.
quote: That is untrue.
quote: The moon is not massive enough, and a comet certainly is not.Other planets might be, but again their orbits would also need to be changed and in ways that lead to the current orbit. Also, there would be evidence. Not only would the forces involved cause devastation on the surface, the orbital change would also considerably change the solar energy reaching the Earth. Which would have serious effects on earthly conditions.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: As you know I’ve done that.
quote: You are the one refusing to talk in science. In science the existence of a story is nowhere near sufficient to take that story as fact. Actual empirical evidence is needed. Remember the motto of the Royal Society - an organisation hugely involved in the development of science: Nullius in verba or in English take nobody’s word for it. You have not yet talked scientifically about the Flood in this thread at all.
quote: If you don’t have evidence you have no relevant data. And - aside from the fact that you cannot reason without data - you haven’t been producing much in the way of reasoning either. Inventing excuses you only half-understand is not valid reasoning.
quote: I can say that you lack a strong theoretical background, so maybe that is your problem.
quote: Yes, I can say that it is not significant evidence of the Flood and the fact that you tried to move the Flood back to the Hadean is further evidence of that. If that is the best you have - and you are unwilling to even try to adequately support the assertions - then you may as well be honest and admit that you have no viable case.
quote: No, that is not what you have been doing. It is what you have refused to do. You prefer insults and a pretence to expertise that you lack in the hope of being blindly believed. Which again only shows that you lack any scientific case.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Not by any amount worth considering.
quote: Nor did it have any noticeable effect on the orbit.
quote: What question? Besides, the orbit of the Earth did not change to reduce the year by that much, not while humans have existed. We know that because humans still exist.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: You should quote my post so the readers can know what you are talking about.
quote: As soon as you have the honesty to admit that you are only making uninformed speculations to try and insist that Bible is correct,despite the many reasons to doubt it.
quote: I’ve given it sufficient thought. It isn’t.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Well that would require a lot more work than you’ve done.
quote: Calling a wild guess a model is straining the truth a bit, don’t you think?
quote: Because there is no evidence that the Earth’s orbit has changed significantly in the relevant period, because anything that could do that would cause drastic effects that would leave evidence and because humans couldn’t live on Earth if it were that close to the Sun.
quote: You’ve had the opportunity and you didn’t.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: But you need more than that. And just how habitable is Mercury, anyway? How habitable would the Earth be if it were even closer to the Sun than Mercury is?
quote: Because it would all be wiped out? There is no other reason.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: No, because you haven’t produced a model yet. Just another wildly implausible speculation.
quote: So long as all those answers are plausible possibilities given the evidence we have. And so long as you produce an actual model with the necessary details rather than just making wild guesses. Of course if you knew enough to do that you would never have suggested the idea in the first place.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: No. Venus was a lot like the Earth. And - unless you want to propose another drastic change in orbit - the Earth would have been in the close orbit for practically all it’s existence. So, like Venus only worse.
quote: Virtually none, because it’s so slow. The Earth is 584,000,000 miles from the Sun. . But you were talking about a sudden change of orbit from inside the orbit of Mercury - which is only 35,000,000 miles from the Sun - to the present orbit. So how suddenly does the Earth traverse more than 500,000,000 miles? You obviously haven’t thought this through.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The next step is absolutely necessary if we ARE to agree with your claim. On the face of it your idea is - to put it politely - highly implausible. Unless you can show otherwise it should be rejected. If you won’t do the next step - whether out of laziness or fear that it will not go the way you want - we will not and should not agree with your idea.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: If you believe the Bible is entirely accurate you should have a good idea of the number of years.
quote: So, only a few thousand years at most. And most of those would be youR shorter years.
quote: Which is obviously far too long. Even 5 thousand (of our years) would be pushing the Biblical chronology - and certainly goes back well before the existence of human beings.
quote: Obviously incorrect estimates that do not address the major problems of the idea (it is still not a model) do nothing to suggest that it is truly possible. Indeed the choice of incorrect estimates suggests that even you don’t believe it is possible.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: You seem to think that you have the authority to dictate what other people may or may not say. You are wrong. The fact that I am not gullible enough to believe your assertions without very strong evidence is not a reason why I should avoid discussion of the issue. It is just a reason why you want me to avoid the discussion.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I think the confused person is the one who is suggesting that Noah lived at a time when the Earth was uninhabitable and had no liquid water on the surface (so no Flood). All in a desperate attempt to explain the age attributed to Noah by the Biblical myth. I guess that’s what happens when you desperately flail around making up excuses instead of employing reason.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I take it then, that your answer was simply unclear, and absolutely nothing is what you meant. Because your answer says nothing relevant at all.
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