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Author | Topic: Did the Flood really happen? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Would you say that the flood stories were parables and teachable moments? What was the motive of the stories being recorded?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Good point,. I'll never win this argument because though most apologists believe the Bible to be divinely inspired, I need to somehow defend the absolute idea of God found in its pages from the numerous other definitions of God, god, and GOD proposed by innumerable religions, philosophies and assertions. I think I will just stick to my basic arguments that I make in my own words as my understanding grows.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Even though I am a firm believer in a living God through Jesus Christ, I am not as sold on this whole mindset that defends Biblical Creationism. Critics will no doubt accuse me of nitpicking, but your Link from AnswersInGenesis is suspect because this ministry has been shown to be dishonest and exploitative of secular funds in furthering their ridiculous Biblical Ark theme park. Now to be fair, Mike...I wont claim so much arrogance as to write you (and Faith) off as delusional in regards to YEC. We all have essentially the same critics and the secular critics lambaste me as much as they do you guys. (in regards to my insistence that God is alive through Jesus and that we are in a Spiritual War)
Addressing the rest of you, and mindful of the fact that this is a science thread, I can only post yet again the basic reason that creationists never argue the position rationally: ![]() Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Physical evidence should exist. We need to open a belief based thread to further discuss this stuff, since none of us (believers) can provide satisfactory evidence for our claims. Personally I label myself as a Cosmological Creationist in that I believe that God existed eternally before matter and energy. I have no physics-based proof of my claim and can only speculate inferentially and philosophically as to my World View.
I trust the Pastors who have this non-evidence based supernatural view, however. Ed Taylor is Aurora, Colorado is one of them. You are correct, however Percy. This "word of knowledge" has no facts to back it up. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Science is very good at defining reality that can be tested. Science will never prove nor disprove God nor the Risen Christ because neither of them can be tested.At least not objectively, which is what you always insists should apply.
“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
To be precise, the failure in this case is the failure to present a supportable science based challenge. Note that this is a science Forum. Dad, please listen to moderation. If you stay here at EvC, you will get challenged and perhaps someday will challenge others as your arguments become more refined and you are able to make valid points. If you challenge authority (which is ungodly, by the way) you will simply get suspended and we will be at a loss for not having you around to challenge and refine *our* arguments.
Well actually some of us *do* care. After all, if you respond to us in a Science Forum, we expect you to respond scientifically rather than emotionally. Which is why I usually stay out of this side of the Forum. ![]() “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lets move this discussion over here. Message 47
“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Edited by Phat, : No reason given. “The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
By that logic, if it takes the light from stars 7-100 light years to arrive at earth and that we essentially look back through the portals of time when we view the stars--even through powerful telescopes, then we could for all intents and purposes simply see the past universe and the actual universe may have long since ceased to exist. What do you think about that? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Wait a minute.... *rubs sleep from eyes*....
Now let me reread this conversation and see if I have it straight! ![]() (starting at Message 1764
*takes a sip of coffee, continuing to rub sleep from eyes*
If not, which of the following most closely mirrors your position? quote: So we have a guy at our Forum...named dad....who is attempting to school us as if we are his children. *pours out coffee and goes back to sleep* "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
One common trait which I see in many arguments is the stubborn insistence of some to frame the argument solely in their own method...ignoring any attempts to deflect it from that frame. Dad obviously w2ants...insists...that you acknowledge his point. Refusal to do so causes him to become stubborn and repetitive.
No amount of further progress is possible. But in the context of a bigger picture, what precisely is each side attempting to prove? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Well this is interesting!
![]() That being said.... ![]()
I am a believer. I believe that God initially created the Heavens(Universe,Solar System, potential Multiverses and so on)and the Earth. That being said, I am not a word for word Biblical literalist. There are many things that we humans do not understand, including the very concept of God the Creator. But again, that is not a question that current science can answer. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I had to again share this cartoon taken from my Message 266
Its funny, but the basic point of the cartoon is that one needs to stop and think how they construct an argument and what it is that they are really trying to "prove". ![]()
![]() "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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Phat Member Posts: 14839 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
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