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Member (Idle past 5937 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The onus is on you and your apologists to explain how it DOES make sense. The reason we use the mathematical analogy is because anybody who can count his own fingers can see that it's obviously false.
Explain why 1+1+1=1 makes no sense Phat writes:
Of course. Creator of all seen and unseen? Can you conceive. of such a Being imparting His character into a human? But that has nothing to do with any Trinity. Three and one at the same time is not possible."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Possible is clearly defined. You can look it up as easily as anybody.
First off, what defines possible? Phat writes:
As I said, that has nothing to do with any Trinity. You can have a cook and a waiter working together in a restaurant. That doesn't make them one person.
Second, can you see a Creator and His human character operating at once as Two(essentially becoming One?) Phat writes:
Nope. Poly is poly and mono is mono and never the twain shall meet. A creator can't just declare that black is white.
Third, if the Creator of all seen and unseen so wanted, He could become all (pantheism) or infuse many sons and daughters (polytheism) and argue that either scenario is still Monotheism. Phat writes:
The next time a customer's bill comes to $3 and he offers you $1, maybe you'll see the logic.
Im speculating, but I still don't see your logic that 3 and 1 at the same time is impossible. With God ALL things are possible. Phat writes:
You're the one who argues against that when you say that God can't be evil. With God ALL things are possible."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then why do you reject it when it says things you don't want to hear? The dusty old book explains itself quite well."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Duh! You call yourself a "Christian". Christ is the character in the book. why must I listen to a character in a book? It's like calling yourself a Marxist and disagreeing with what Marx said. I keep asking you, if you're going to make up your own character, why do you even call him "Jesus"?
Phat writes:
Not nearly as crazy as communing with voices in your head. That's Charles Manson territory. Seems a bit obsessive to me."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You expect people to believe there is a real Jesus alive today, and he's the one you made up, not the one in the Bible? Come on. Does that make sense to you at all? ringo writes:
How do you know He isn't? I keep asking you, if you're going to make up your own character, why do you even call him "Jesus"? As I keep asking you, if you think the Bible authors got it so wrong, why do you even use the same name for your version? Why don't you call your savior George?
Phat writes:
For one thing, there are four gospels. If you're going to make up your own religion, you should have three more apostles that support your story. The other Jesus is the product of human authorship....whats the difference? Edited by ringo, : Spell'ng."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Not at all. Not even close. The voices in your head are not audible. I can not hear them.
So if I wrote a story and narrated it to you on Audible, you would essentially be listening to voices in my head(and in my book) Phat writes:
The difference is the word you hate so much: evidence. There is evidence of the made-up book. There is no evidence that the voices in your head are real.
Again I ask you what the difference is. Phat writes:
It has nothing to do with whether you think it's "good" or not. It's about whether He said it or not. If you don't believe He said it, then you have no basis for believing He said He was the Son of God and you have no basis for believing He said He was coming back.
What good is it to have a stern commanding Jesus who tells us we must do the same as the rich young ruler... Phat writes:
So why was he deranged when he heard voices in his head and you're not? Why was he harboring demons and you're not?
As for Charlie Manson, he was either certifiably deranged or harboring demons. Phat writes:
Utter nonsense. Whether or not the character is real has nothing to do with it. You can't argue my argument borrowing my beliefs to do so when you in fact (as does Tangle) see only characters in a book. You're trying to hijack the character, whether he was real or not. You could make up your own Long John Silver and claim yours is real and Stevenson's was not. Or you could make up your own Franklin Delano Roosevelt and claim yours is real and Eleanor's was not. You'd be just as crazy in those cases as you are in claiming your Jesus is real and the Biblical one is not."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It doesn't matter if nobody does it. The point is that you're claiming Jesus never said what He said. You don't get that nobody does what they should...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nope. You can't get away with that. The dusty old book explains itself quite well.
ringo writes:
back atcha. Then why do you reject it when it says things you don't want to hear? You claim to believe in Jesus. I don't. I don't have any reason to do what a fictional character said. But if you believe He isn't fictional, you do have an obligation to do what He said. As for your Bible quote, why do you believe Jesus when He said He didn't have a demon? Why do you believe Jesus when He said he honored His Father? Why do you believe Jesus when He said He didn't seek His own glory? Why do you believe Jesus when He said He knew the Father and kept His word? And yet you don't believe Him when He tells you to do something.
Phat writes:
It doesn't take any "gall' to tell the truth. And you know it's true: You don't throw away your bills can keep the envelopes.
And you have the gall to suggest that only the message is important and that the messenger is little more than an envelope. Phat writes:
And it's a pretty damn good excuse. You don't believe in Zoroaster and you don't do has he says. You don't believe in Qutetzalcoatl and you don't do what he says. Why would you?
Your excuse has been that you are not a believer. Phat writes:
Go ahead and show us the parts that don't support socialism.
Essentially you only use the parts of the message that support Socialism...which you like. Phat writes:
What are you talking about? I have always advocated paying taxes.
The idea that you don't need to pay taxes to Caesar, perhaps? Phat writes:
I have never said any such thing.
The fact that nothing belongs to any of us anyway and is essentially communally shared? Phat writes:
That's the Bible's idea.
The idea that the ravens (and liberal neighbors) will feed you and give you spare change? Phat writes: Truly we differ. Well, go to the door and pull your brain out of it's parking place."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
There actually is. There is no way around this. Phat and I have been through this before. "The Word" is not a person. The Word is the message (love thy neighbor, etc.) that God has been trying to get through to people since the beginning. Go ahead and look up every instance of the word "word" in John - or in the whole Bible, for that matter. It doesn't refer to a person. It refers to actual words. In some places there are references to Jesus AND the word, indicating that they are two different things."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Easily done. Alpha Centauri has no effect on my life (just like your God). I can totally disregard Alpha Centauri with no problem at all. One may as well throw away Alpha Centauri"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
It has failed to cover up a lot of the child-molesting. The Holy Spirit has certainly "done its job" ... infallibly, in fact, through the Catholic Church. A cynic might even wonder why an infallible Holy Spirit would appoint so many child molesters to lofty positions in the Church."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
So your loophole is that the scriptures don't forbid child-molesting.
The Holy Spirit guarantees to provide infallible interpretations of Scripture through the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. Dredge writes:
Then the Holy Spirit's job description should be re-written. Preventing child-molesting by church officials certainly SHOULD be part of its job. The Holy Spirit does not override the free will of any human being nor prevent anyone from choosing to sin ... regardless of their position in the Church."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Mine too. But I don't misattribute them to some non-exixtant entity.
Many positive habits or systems have a positive measurable change on and in my life. Phat writes:
What difference does that make? If the circumstances were time-sensitive, how can you determine that the timing wasn't coincidental?
Did I simply freely or willfully choose to implement these small yet significant changes on a day that was specific? Yes. Why was that day specific over any other day? Phat writes:
If you mean you're getting worse, some here would agree.
But the changes are beginning to snowball. Phat writes:
But your posts are just as crazy as they were a month ago.
As an example, my average blood sugar reading is 184. That's over a hundred points lower than a month ago. Phat writes:
Good question. Why did the Holy Spirit not help you long ago?
Why is it that I had no power to even lower my blood sugar a point for many years? Phat writes:
You seemed to think you were pretty "empowered" before. You were pretty arrogant about it back then.
And why, after only a month of small changes do I suddenly feel empowered? Phat writes:
I agree that it's all in your mind. I say that in my mind, God made a change."Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
So you're an SDA? Sunday worship. Sunday is the mark of boththe Roman Empire and its image, the RCC. "Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
But you're against Sunday worship? I am not a Seventh Day Adventist. (And much of the creationist crap that we hear originated with the SDAs.)"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg. What's going on? Where are all the friends I had? It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong. Give me back, give me back my Leningrad." -- Leningrad Cowboys
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