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Author Topic:   Paul Harvey's take on prayer in public/Xmas (In general, a "freedom of speech" topic)
JustinC
Member (Idle past 4874 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 53 of 165 (173805)
01-04-2005 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Hangdawg13
01-04-2005 2:05 PM


quote:
I completely agree that the government is not founded on the Christian Religion, but the founders were guided by the common morality at that time, which had its roots in Christianity, and the nation at that time was composed mainly of Christians, and consequently they exercised their freedom to live as desired. There is no denying this.
Did the common law have its roots in Christianity? Thomas Jefferson writes:
"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it.
". . . if any one chooses to build a doctrine on any law of that period, supposed to have been lost, it is incumbent on him to prove it to have existed, and what were its contents. These were so far alterations of the common law, and became themselves a part of it. But none of these adopt Christianity as a part of the common law. If, therefore, from the settlement of the Saxons to the introduction of Christianity among them, that system of religion could not be a part of the common law, because they were not yet Christians, and if, having their laws from that period to the close of the common law, we are all able to find among them no such act of adoption, we may safely affirm (though contradicted by all the judges and writers on earth) that Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
He seems to be correct about the dates, so how can Christianity be the root of common law if it wasn't introduced until 200 years after the common law was in existence? Or do you deny that the common law ws in existance before Christianity?
Just out of curiousity, what exact laws have their roots in Christianity?
As for the whole Christian Nation thing, there is obviously an equivocation of terms going on. You think it means that the majority of the population is Christians, and many of us believe it means the nation was founded on Christian principles. As for the latter, since it wasn't explicitly stated that the country was founded on Christian principles (in fact, it was the opposite), it seems the only reconciliation is to find the roots of the common law or attitudes of the time were influenced in a major way by Christian teachings. I have yet to see it, but I must admit I haven't read Barton's book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-04-2005 2:05 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

JustinC
Member (Idle past 4874 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 57 of 165 (173968)
01-05-2005 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by bob_gray
01-05-2005 12:18 AM


Re: which principles are uniquely Christian?
Just as a quick comment, my brother loves the PhD websites. I only figured them out because of you and he said they relate to his life as a graduate student in mechanical engineer at CMU to a large degree and helped him understand that advisors are always hard on their students, no matter how good their research is.
They are hilarious websites. I love the character who never writes his PhD thesis. Brilliant. I know ten guy just like that.

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 Message 56 by bob_gray, posted 01-05-2005 12:18 AM bob_gray has not replied

JustinC
Member (Idle past 4874 days)
Posts: 624
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: 07-21-2003


Message 83 of 165 (174152)
01-05-2005 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Hangdawg13
01-05-2005 1:18 PM


Re: which principles are uniquely Christian?
quote:
Many of these people's beliefs belonged to some form of Christianity and as such their communities reflected their beliefs, and the wisdom written by the founding fathers also reflected their beliefs (I realize some were deists).
I'm not trying to make an all-or-nothing comment. I realize that Christianity had some influence on our Founding Fathers perspectives, but I don't see that as anything but a vague, common sense statement. Which principles outlined in our constitution have there roots in Christianity? One that comes to mind immediately is "all men are created equal," but it was also written by an intellectual deist. I'm not sure that principle is exclusive to Christianity either.
If this nation was founded as a Christian Nation, then why wasn't this the national religion? Why wasn't it explicitly stated? Why was separation of church and state mandated?
It seems to me, from my amateur studying of American history, that the major influences on the major players (Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Paine, Franklin, etc) of the Founding Fathers was a keen understanding of history, an understanding the fates of historical societies, and a desire to protect this particular society against despots. I see very little Christian influence, but I could just be unintentionally filtering it out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Hangdawg13, posted 01-05-2005 1:18 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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