Paul Harvey's take on prayer in public/Xmas (In general, a "freedom of speech" topic)

Jazzns writes:

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I make a bunch of t-shirts that "NEOCON = FACIST"...

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I WANT ONE!!!. Where do I send my check?

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buzsaw asserts:

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What they wanted produced the greatest, the most prosperous, the most blessed and the most free society ever. It wasn't broke until folks began fixing it.

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Oh, yeah, of course. Everything was just fine so long as we allowed slavery, denied women the vote and the right to own property, enforced segregation laws, forced children into working 16-hour days in sweatshop factories, pursued polices to perpetuate poverty and starvation, etc. No, no, we didn't tempt God until we began trying to do something to relieve human suffering and to recognize the dignity of all human beings by enforcing civil rights laws. God must be furious.You tell 'em, buz!This message has been edited by berberry, 01-06-2005 11:41 AM

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keith63 writes:

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Here is the big one that most people who quote seperation of church and state miss!! A person praying at a game is not establishing a state or Federal religeon, thus not against the constitution, but prohibiting prayer is prohibiting the free exercise thereof, and should be a violation of the constitution!!

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And here's what YOU missed: The 14th Amendment!!You see, when the government allows a religion to offer prayer at a government-sponsored event (like a public high school football game), it is not offering equal protection under the law. There is no practical way that it could honor the equal protection cause while allowing prayer.Why is this so difficult to understand?

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keith63 misapprehends:

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Again if I am right a faculty member or student, by praying, are not making any laws.

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Please provide the quote where I said they were. I didn't. What I quite correctly said was that you were ignoring the 14th amendment. You quote it directly and still ignore it. Try to concentrate on this part: Where do you get the silly notion that this only applies to law-making?

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keith63 writes me:

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When taken in context this clearly says the state can't deny any persons equal protection under the law.

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Exactly. Try to follow me: the State makes the laws. The state runs the public schools. In fact, the state makes laws that govern the schools. The schools are thus an extension of the state. The state is not allowed to deny equal protection to ANYONE; atheist, Christian, Jew, ANYONE. Offering prayer at a state-sanctioned event of any sort denies equal protection to anyone present who might not concur with the prayer. It's that simple.

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buzsaw writes me:

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Oh, come now. What percentage of America's children were forced to do this......

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What percentage is acceptable to you? A cursory scan through my old high school American history textbook (The American Pageant: A History of the Republic by Thomas A. Bailey and David M. Kennedy, 6th ed.) shows me that in 1820, half of America's factory workers were chldren under ten years of age. That would be 50%. As in HALF! Under TEN!Perhaps you'd care to do a bit of research yourself. Here's a great place to start: Child Labor in Pennsylvania, from the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission, an agency of the state government.I don't mean to sound as though I'm dumping on you, buz, but I do wish you'd trouble yourself to look a thing or two up now and then before you post. My point is that things have ALWAYS been horrible in this country. But they've also ALWAYS been wonderful. Life is like that. Good and bad. That's how things are, that's how they always have been and that's how they always will be. Until now, things have steadily gotten better because we as a country have become more LIBERAL. That's not a bad thing.

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Rrhain writes:

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I thought riVeRraT was gone.

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No, he's still around. In fact he seems to have mellowed slightly. In another thread he's been arguing with buz and other fundies that the recent tsunami disaster is not an example of God's wrath on heathen people. I was pleasantly surprised with him.

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