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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3079 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What Is The Positive Evidence For Atheism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That's what I've been saying for years and years, you know. I know this is going to sound patronizing, but in my opinion it is a matter of maturity to accept that the universe doesn't owe us any answers. I would much rather let mysteries be mysteries rather than believe something out of fear or comfort. The truth is more important than my feelings. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I've got the cranberry tangerine relish, the sausage and onion stuffing, and the pumpkin cheesecake done. (the stuffing needs to bake yet) The bird just went into the oven, the neck and giblets are simmering with carrots, an onion, and parley stems on the stovetop for the gravy later. The walnuts are toasted for the Belgian endive, apple, and blue cheese salad with sherry vinegar and walnut oil dressing. Got to let that blue cheese come up to room temperature, peel the russets for mashed potatoes, and trim the asparagus. I've paced myself pretty well, I think.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
...the universe doesn't owe us any answers. This is a very nice way of putting it. Computers have cut-and-paste functions. So does right-wing historical memory. -- Rick Perlstein
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Jon Inactive Member |
This whole idea of not knowing really bothers me. Um... but if you make up your answer, you don't know it just as much as you didn't know it before you made up your answer.
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nator Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Thanks!
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3992 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.5 |
nator writes: The walnuts are toasted for the Belgian endive, apple, and blue cheese salad with sherry vinegar and walnut oil dressing. Mmmmm. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2508 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
nator writes: I've got the cranberry tangerine relish, the sausage and onion stuffing...... Sounds more like positive evidence for heaven on earth than positive evidence for atheism. Mouth watering!
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Parasomnium writes:
I wasn't referring to the god of the old testament. I was referring to the god here and now. So far, I haven't seen a single piece of evidence that would suggest this omnipotent god would have any affect on the physical reality that I live in. This, of course, doesn't mean that god does not exist. It just means that so far the universe that I live in is identical to a universe that doesn't have a god.
I strongly disagree with this: in a universe with a god anything can happen, the god can suspend the laws of nature whenever he pleases, so they aren't really laws of nature at all. Admittedly, if the god keeps himself well hidden from us and stays out of our affairs, his universe may well be indistinguisable from a universe without him, but in principle they are not identical.
Well, in principal a room with an immaterial pink unicorn is different than a room without an immaterial pink unicorn. But the question is how the flying squirrel do you tell the difference between the two? Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Taz writes: I wasn't referring to the god of the old testament. I was referring to the god here and now. So far, I haven't seen a single piece of evidence that would suggest this omnipotent god would have any affect on the physical reality that I live in. This, of course, doesn't mean that god does not exist. It just means that so far the universe that I live in is identical to a universe that doesn't have a god. You have no way of knowing that. All we know is how things are. If God exists we have no idea what it would look like if He were to retire or resign. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
GDR writes:
Ok, let's suppose that there is a god. How does this help us better understand the physical universe we are in? You have no way of knowing that. All we know is how things are. If God exists we have no idea what it would look like if He were to retire or resign. Let me be more specific. Can you think of any single natural phenomenon that requires a miracle being to exist? Can you name one mathematical equation that describes a physical system that also has a variable "god" in there? Again, I must go back to the immaterial pink unicorn. Suppose we are in a room. Someone comes up with the idea that there might be an immaterial pink unicorn standing in the room with us. What's the point of believing in its existence if there is no conceivable way we can detect this immaterial pink unicorn? Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Taz writes: Let me be more specific. Can you think of any single natural phenomenon that requires a miracle being to exist? Can you name one mathematical equation that describes a physical system that also has a variable "god" in there? If there is a god then all natural phenomenon and mathematical equations required the miracle of creation.
Taz writes: Again, I must go back to the immaterial pink unicorn. Suppose we are in a room. Someone comes up with the idea that there might be an immaterial pink unicorn standing in the room with us. What's the point of believing in its existence if there is no conceivable way we can detect this immaterial pink unicorn? It is apples and oranges. The discussion of whether Theism or Atheism is true is largely dependent on what we are to make of our world and the universe, of the fact that we have emotions and can make moral decisions etc. There is non-scientific evidence available and we can all come to our own conclusions about that non-scientific evidence. There is also a large body of people that do believe that there a god in one form or another exists. Nobody believes in immaterial pink unicorns. There is no evidence scientific or non-scientific for an immaterial pink unicorn. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3322 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
GDR writes:
Right, right. Can you give us the mathematical equation(s) that represent this miracle of creation?
If there is a god then all natural phenomenon and mathematical equations required the miracle of creation. The discussion of whether Theism or Atheism is true is largely dependent on what we are to make of our world and the universe, of the fact that we have emotions and can make moral decisions etc.
Are you trying to say that I'm a murderer and a rapist?
There is also a large body of people that do believe that there a god in one form or another exists. Nobody believes in immaterial pink unicorns.
Ok, how about goblins? What about doppelgangers? What about the alien race called the Zeta? GDR, just because a bunch of people are delusional doesn't necessarily make the delusion true. I've seen your posts enough to know you are well aware of this logical fallacy. Are you playing dumb or are you lying for your faith? Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes: If there is a god then all natural phenomenon and mathematical equations required the miracle of creation. I don't see any particular reason to conflate gods with creation. Why can't we have gods poking their noses into a universe they didn't create? “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Taz writes:
Would the mathematical formula used to indicate the time of the BB qualify.
Right, right. Can you give us the mathematical equation(s) that represent this miracle of creation?Taz writes: Are you trying to say that I'm a murderer and a rapist? No. I'm have no idea of why you would infer that I am. Being a Christian does not mean that I am ging to be a "better" person than my Atheistic next door neighbour.
Taz writes: GDR, just because a bunch of people are delusional doesn't necessarily make the delusion true. I've seen your posts enough to know you are well aware of this logical fallacy. Are you playing dumb or are you lying for your faith? I'm not saying that it does. However I am just making the point that if there is a latge percentage of people believe somrthing is true, it should be considered differntly than something that nobody believes is true. However, that in no way proves that it is correct. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Ringo writes: I don't see any particular reason to conflate gods with creation. Why can't we have gods poking their noses into a universe they didn't create? Whether there are other gods or not isn't really germane. All we are talking about is basic Theism which, as I see it implies an intelligence that is responsible for all that there is. By the way, as I'm originally from the Hat I figure that I'm close enough to be considered an honourary citizen of that province for yours for the weekend. Go Riders. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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