The problem with EVC

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The attitude on the science side is outrageously arrogant but this may mostly reflect their inability to grasp the language and frame of reference of the humanities at all. They sure aren't humble about it though. And we on the "humanities" side abhor the language of science -- when applied to social problems anyway, which is what that thread is about. At least I abhor it. Gives me a kind of nausea.

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I don't necessarily consider the attitute on the science side arrogant. However, this is not the first time I have heard this accusation hurled against those who argue for the validity of science. Usually, it is after those who argue against science have exhausted all hope of using logic, evidence, history, indeed even a critical examination of their own beliefs, against the overwhelming rational conclusion that science is an excellent, if not the best, way to truly understand God's creation.What I do consider arrogant is the attitude that the only path to God is through one exact set of beliefs, that only one individual or very small group have been allowed to percieve, because they are chosen by God and everyone who is different (evidently in any manner) is condemmed to the abyss.BTW - I have university degrees in engineering, physical sciences, social sciences, and humanities (but I sure could use one in the life sciences around these parts). I do not consider that there is such a wide gulf between one form of knowledge or another, just a difference in focus and methodology.As usual I am off topic again.Maybe off-topic. I don't believe that EvC shoud be viewed as a way to confirm beliefs that are immutible and unquestionable. Learning is a behavior that involves a change in the learner. I think if one comes to this forum with the idea that they already know the truth and that there is nothing to learn from anyone, then all they will get is an opportunity to vent rather than an opportunity to learn (not that I don't use it to vent).The biggest problem with EvC is that one's ego becomes bruised when one discovers there are so many people who know so much more than oneself about so many things. The greatest advantage is it provides the opportunity to learn, even from those one disagrees with, from throughout the world.OK admins, now I'm done so you can hit me with the off-topic message again.

Do you have something new for me to learn? I already know what creationists say when they evidently feel cornered.Edited by anglagard, : wisecracks deletedEdited by anglagard, : not quite all wisecracks

I am going to get nailed for being off-topic

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It's about a way of thinking, a worldview, that has grown up around science, particularly when it addresses human and social problems.

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As in communicable disease, economic prosperity, feeding 2 billion people by using genetic knowledge as Norman Blalock has done in the last 40 years instead of letting them die in the gutter, as a fundamentalist would have had done? Fortunately most people on Earth do not share your hatred of Science, especially the 2 billion fundamentalism would have condemmed to death just in the last 40 years.

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It makes a person with a humanities background truly sick to read that reductionistic crap.

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Science saving lives and improving lives makes me proud to have a degree in science. What's the deal with taking the human out of humanities?

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And then they are arrogant about it on top of their shallowness, their hamfistedness, their blundering around in this arena they have no feeling for.

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I think there are at least 2 billion people who would prefer the arrogance of science to the slow death by starvation of your anti-science gospel according to "Faith."

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Certainly what I'm saying is not complimentary to those who buy into it.

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No shit.

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No, they've been saying that I'm stupid and I don't have degrees from world-class institutions.

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I don't understand without further clarification, namely where have you been called stupid and who has used the argument from "world-class" institutions. I keep seeing the same complaint without enough elaboration to provide sufficient and IMHO appropriate feedback.I believe most people here would agree that a degree is only worth as much as the person that earned the degree. If a degree holder is incapable of rational thought, then the degree is worth nothing. Additionally, formal education is not inherently more valuable than informal education in increasing knowledge, the self-taught individual can be more knowledgeable than the formally trained in some cases, many examples in certian areas can be seen here.I have mentioned I have degrees in this or that area, hopefully not to imply some kind of undeserved superiority, but to help illuminate where I am coming from. When I consider mentioning this or that form of formal education, my primary concern is how it applies to the topic at hand.I don't believe that a person should be sensitive to the idea that mentioning formal education automatically implies an intended insult.Also - The FSM is a satire on ID, it is not now, nor has ever been intended to be an actual divinity.

Satire is a tried-and-true way to humilitate and render insignificant bullshit ideas where adherents find it necessary to lie in order to preserve such ideas. See Cervantes and Swift {ABE - and Voltaire, etc.} Edited by anglagard, : forgot Voltaire.

Right, and Swift really meant that Irish children should be eaten in "A Modest Proposal."It's called sustained irony.PS - I think you are purposefully playing dumb so you can whine about mistreatment later. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Well, thats the humanities for you, it relies upon the subjective opinion of taste and precedent rather than objective results used by the sciences by way of qualitative and quantitative analysis. Fortunately, neither the sciences nor the humanities feel any need to be vetted by your pompous I-am-god attitude.I am rereading the Bible right now for the third time because I want to learn and possibly contribute to this forum to a greater extent than I have done so far, are you reading a freshman geology text?Or does the concept of learning as opposed to pronouncment offend you?Have you ever considered the fact that you may yet have something to learn?

Another example of a subjective opinion from a person whining about how they are unfairly treated because I (among many) refuse to comply to your delusions of persecution. FSM is a made up figure used to satirize ID.God is a logically unfathomable entity that consists of all the universe including all people, all matter, all energy, and all time, in addition to that which can never be percieved. God is everything and then some. God is best known through the works of God (science) rather than the words of men (Bible, etc.).Thats a reasonably standard Spinoza Panthiest definition.If you would like to argue "my god is bigger than your God," that would require another thread.Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

Who are you to judge my religious beliefs?