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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 6 of 752 (687995)
01-18-2013 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thugpreacha
03-14-2006 3:58 AM


Re: The apologists defense of the literalist faith
Asking, "Who made God?" is like asking, "Who made all of those cars?" Just like the cars, those gods were made by a lot of different manufacturers, often with different goals in mind.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-14-2006 3:58 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2013 3:52 PM ringo has responded
 Message 169 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-26-2017 5:46 PM ringo has responded
 Message 371 by Thugpreacha, posted 02-24-2019 3:21 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 19 of 752 (688135)
01-19-2013 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Thugpreacha
01-18-2013 3:52 PM


Re: In the beginning car said let there be light and matter and time and space.
Phat writes:

Is it illogical to accept the belief that God existed before we did and that He has a definite character that we didn't ascribe to Him?


Any belief can have its own internally consistent logic. Logic in itself is not an indicator of reality.

The problem is that there are so many logically consistent gods, each with his own definite character. You seem to concede that some of them are made up. I'm just wondering why you think one is different.

Sure, there could be one real god and a whole passle of made-up ones - but how do you know yours is the real one?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-18-2013 3:52 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-19-2013 4:05 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 23 of 752 (688262)
01-21-2013 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Thugpreacha
01-19-2013 4:05 PM


Re: Should God be slanged or kept to oneself?
Phat writes:

All that I can claim is that He is the real One in my belief.


That sounds a bit like somebody saying his wife/girlfriend is the "only one" for him. How do you distinguish between "the best of many" (which only includes the ones you've met) and "only one exists"?

Phat writes:

Would it be necessary and expected for me to push my belief?


Is it "nesessary and espected" for me to push my belief that Coca-Cola is the only "real" soft drink?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-19-2013 4:05 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 77 of 752 (689513)
01-31-2013 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
01-31-2013 2:56 AM


Re: Evidence
Faith writes:

The Bible was never "found to fail" except by people who wanted it to fail....


That isn't true. I always wanted the Bible to succeed - but the more I tried to prove it was true, the more it failed. The only way to see it as "true" is with your eyes shut.

Faith writes:

It's ALL witness testimony....


At best, it's hearsay. Even our justice system, which is much less rigorous than science, wouldn't accept it as evidence.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 2:56 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 12:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 109 of 752 (689596)
02-01-2013 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
01-31-2013 12:11 PM


Re: Evidence
Faith writes:

Well, God has to open your eyes to the truth.


It's true that one's eyes have to be open to the truth. Yours, unfortunately, are not - as witnessed by the utterly ridiculous contortions that you go through to try to explain the creation and the flood. You mangle the Bible to "prove" it's true and you make a laughingstock of believers in the process.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 01-31-2013 12:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Thugpreacha, posted 02-01-2013 11:49 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 111 of 752 (689609)
02-01-2013 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Thugpreacha
02-01-2013 11:49 AM


Re: Evidence
Phat writes:

IF God is no respector of persons, why is it that He only opens SOME eyes to "the truth"?


"Seek and ye shall find." If you actively avoid the truth, even the God of the Bible won't prop your eyes open with toothpicks. Ignoring real evidence in favour of Bible stories is avoidance if anything ever was.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Thugpreacha, posted 02-01-2013 11:49 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 129 of 752 (825754)
12-17-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Faith
12-17-2017 2:53 PM


Re: Evidence
Faith writes:

the modern scholars are predominantly unbelievers. They should not be allowed to say anything about the Bible.


On that principle, you shouldn't be allowed to say anything about evolution.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Faith, posted 12-17-2017 2:53 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 150 of 752 (825841)
12-18-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Faith
12-17-2017 9:40 PM


Re: The true threat from the folk like Faith is clear.Go
Faith writes:

Yes, one liners are about right for the occasion I'd say.


As a wise hillbilly used to say, "When he tells you howdy, he's told you everything he knows."
This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 12-17-2017 9:40 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 170 of 752 (826262)
12-27-2017 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Thugpreacha
12-26-2017 5:46 PM


Re: Who Made God Synopsis
Phat writes:

Imagine that you one day became aware of a certain car. By definition, it eased your anxiety, confirmed your desire, and was capable of getting you to where you wanted to go. Without seeing a picture of it and without another description of it, could you say you made it up (imagined it) or could it be possible that you simply became aware of it?


Unless I could actually get into it and drive it, it's pretty obvious that it's just made up.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-26-2017 5:46 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 176 of 752 (826299)
12-28-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Thugpreacha
12-28-2017 2:44 AM


Re: Here In My Car
Phat writes:

I also dont need proof of the car as long as such a car would also be proven useful to me and whether I too could acquire such a car.


Whenever I ask you where I can get a car like that, you tell me I don't want one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Thugpreacha, posted 12-28-2017 2:44 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 242 of 752 (826698)
01-07-2018 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Thugpreacha
01-07-2018 2:58 AM


Re: Jonathan Sarfati, of AIG, accepts General Relitivity (and AIG itself).
Phat writes:

Why is it so difficult to simply say that God was not created therefore needs no cause?


Because it's nonsense.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-07-2018 2:58 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-08-2018 1:11 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 247 of 752 (826715)
01-08-2018 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Thugpreacha
01-08-2018 1:11 AM


Re: Jonathan Sarfati, of AIG, accepts General Relitivity (and AIG itself).
Phat writes:

It seems to me that you simply think that any unevidenced belief is nonsense.


Well, to "make sense" logically, an idea has to start with true premises, doesn't it? How can you tell whether or not something is true without evidence?

Phat writes:

You, on the other hand, wave away any belief as nonsense precisely because it is unevidenced and you wont allow the term miracle to be part of your vocabulary.


The word "miracle" certainly is part of my vocabulary. So are "God" and "Santa Claus" and "Bigfoot".

Phat writes:

You would wait your whole life for evidence without believing in anything.


You say that as if it was a bad thing.

Which is worse? To wait your whole life without knowing or to spend your whole life being wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-08-2018 1:11 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-08-2018 4:13 PM ringo has responded
 Message 251 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2018 12:30 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 259 of 752 (826758)
01-09-2018 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Thugpreacha
01-08-2018 4:13 PM


Re: Jonathan Sarfati, of AIG, accepts General Relitivity (and AIG itself).
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Which is worse? To wait your whole life without knowing or to spend your whole life being wrong?


They are roughly the same.

What?

Did you read the question at all?

Phat writes:

The time you spend dead is a lot longer than the time you will spend alive.


And if you're wrong your whole life, you're still wrong the whole time you're dead. How is that "roughly the same" as waiting your whole life for evidence without believing in anything?

Phat writes:

Plus I always liked the idea of Pascals Wager


Pascal was Catholic. You've already lost that wager.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Thugpreacha, posted 01-08-2018 4:13 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 260 of 752 (826759)
01-09-2018 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by ICANT
01-09-2018 12:30 AM


Re: true premises
ICANT writes:

Where is the true premise (evidence) for the universe and everything in it existing at the Planck epoch, the size of a pin point before it began to expand?


The expansion of the universe is an observation, not a logical conclusion.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by ICANT, posted 01-09-2018 12:30 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 372 of 752 (849102)
02-24-2019 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 371 by Thugpreacha
02-24-2019 3:21 PM


Re: The apologists defense of the literalist faith
Phat writes:

OK, going with your analogy... let's examine 3 models. The first model is who the Jews perceived around the time of Jesus birth and also around the time Saul of Tarsus was afoot. The second model was the one whom Jesus called Father.
The third model was the one that allegedly knocked Saul off his high horse and spurned him into becoming Paul and starting a new religion. One could argue that a real God existed amongst these contenders...


You're not really talking about three different models. You're talking about three Toyota Corollas in slightly different shades of blue.

Phat writes:

People these days place their hope in science and technology to alleviate suffering.


And it works.

Phat writes:

God forbid we have a polytheistic universe. I prefer a monotheistic reality.


Why?

Phat writes:

A committee of Gods would more likely turn down my requests.


And your requests ARE turned down, so the committee seems more likely - or no God at all.

Phat writes:

If I simply waited for God to reveal His name to me, I would never get an opportunity to begin to get to know Him.


You don't know Him.

Phat writes:

My point is that you have concluded that God likely isn't here. I have concluded that He likely is. Is either position any worse than the other?


Subsitute "leprechauns" for "God" and answer the question yourself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Thugpreacha, posted 02-24-2019 3:21 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Thugpreacha, posted 02-24-2019 4:10 PM ringo has responded

  
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