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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Member (Idle past 2184 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

Message 54 of 868 (689414)
01-30-2013 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by GDR
01-29-2013 2:06 PM

Re: What Constitutes Evidence?
You seem to be arriving at your conclusion based on a very obvious misunderstanding of science.

If in fact you believe the accounts of the Bible to be true, then you don't need to twist up science to support your beliefs.

The world and specifically all life does appear to be designed.

Life is barely able to exist on a small planet in a vast, vast universe. In our solar system alone only 1 planet has life, and ONLY for a short period of time. It will eventually vanish either through catastrophic events on Earth or when the Sun has exhasted it's fuel.

Some design, huh?

We do seem to desire purpose in our lives as you said earlier.

One species out of BILLIONS has a brain complex enough to have what you call "desires" and has given itself "purpose", but these qualities are not typical. It is not in abundance. No other species posses this, so it's simply a by-product of one species evolution.

It allows for our physical properties to change in order to better adapt to our environment.

Our physical properties do no such thing. If I throw you in the ocean as a baby you will not produce gills by adulthood.

It's such a big misunderstanding of evolution that it would derail this thread trying to explain it. So it's probably best if you head over to the evolution threads and start from scratch.

That is all evidence and we will all come to our own conclusions about where the evidence leads us.

Then you have manipulated the evidence to fit a very narrow religious view.

It will simply demonstrate that it took intelligence and effort to make it happen.

...and you continue to do it. What it will prove is that life DOES NOT need any intelligence to guide it, as it will obviously show that life can arrise from simple chemicalreactions.

Maybe, but I don’t think it particularly plausible that this hypothetical god would create a world where intelligence could morality are part of existence and then be uninterested and uninvolved in the ongoing process.

Where is this universe you speak of? I see one planet where ONE particular species has evolved a trait that is beneficial to them, but may end up destroying them. Some design. Some purpose. Is this what "god" intended?

- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by GDR, posted 01-29-2013 2:06 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by GDR, posted 01-30-2013 7:19 PM onifre has replied

Member (Idle past 2184 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

Message 69 of 868 (689477)
01-30-2013 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by GDR
01-30-2013 7:19 PM

Re: What Constitutes Evidence?
I’m just saying that science has discovered some pretty miraculous things about this planet like QM and for that matter evolution.

Maybe it's your own astonishment that's leading you to believe it's a miracle, or just a choice use of words to veer it toward the miraculous, but those who understand QM doen't call it miraculous. That would imply it's supernatural, and QM is very natural, predictable and testable.

Sure, but of course it is my view that this isn’t all there is, and although our current form of existence is obviously finite that we are all part of something bigger and more lasting.

But if we're going to exist beyond the physical world in your opinion, if that's even possible or something that even makes sense, what's the point then of bringing up this physical universe and it's design qualities?

You said this universe seems designed, I pointed out that life has only existed for a tiny amount of time and will eventually be gone, and now you're telling me about another place where we'll go after that happens...and I'm imagining we'll be there for eternity. Ok, fine. So then, shouldn't your point be that we are actually designed for the afterlife, since we'll be there, well, forever?

No more than you do as when you make statements like you did above when you said “so it's (intelligence and morality),simply a by-product of one species evolution”.

Well, isn't it a by-product of an evolution you clearly agree happened? Even if you believe the God of the Christian Bible gave it to us, you would have to agree that he did so through the process of evolution and we've developed it (intelligence and morality) to the levels you find today throughout the world.

How else do you believe it would have happened if not like that?

Well, science is a long way from doing that so right now as I said it is simply “science of the gaps” but if it does happen it will require some scientist somewhere to figure out which chemicals and in what combination.

It's much closer than you're suggesting it is. In fact, it's very close and I invite you again to search the thread here that cover it.

If it is so simple then why don’t we see it happening all the time. We only see life forming from existing life.

Even when life is being created from other life, it's no more complicated than chemical reactions. Which are themselves nothing more complicated than a collection of elements.

In the next life how about we re-constitute EvC and we’ll be in a better position to debate the quality of the design and purpose.

I get to be Percy in the next life!

- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by GDR, posted 01-30-2013 7:19 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by GDR, posted 01-31-2013 11:58 AM onifre has taken no action

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