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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 556 of 1385 (851401)
04-24-2019 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 492 by Tangle
04-14-2019 3:37 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tangle writes:
Yeh, science would just think it was magic how everything worked without any coherent theory about anything, from radioactive decay, disease to stellar movements.
Your straw-man unwittingly raises a pertinent point - believing life on earth is 6000 years old would certainly contradict the science surrounding radioactive decay. But as for the study of disease and stellar movements, I can't see how such a belief would affect them in any way.
What did surprise me was how many religionists are still YECs.
How many religionists are still YECs? In the Catholic Church (population 1.2 billion), there seems to be relatively few. YECs probably represent only a small (vocal) minority of religionists.
PE is an observation.
Er, no ... you're confused ... PE is a theory that attempts to explain an observation. PE is also an untestable theory, and is therefore nothing more than a pseudo-scientific story.
Well now we have it. H. sapiens did not evolve, he was placed here whole by a (Christian) God. Great, now show your workings.
Too easy! The genealogies from the first humans are recorded in the Bible (an historical document) - from which it can be calculated that man was created less than 10,000 years ago.
And while you're at it, explain why H. Sapiens have been dated at c200,000 yo.
Homo sapiens have been dated as 200, 000 years old? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Deary me ... the delusions and nonsense you evolutionists are forced to come up with!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Tangle, posted 04-14-2019 3:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 561 by Tangle, posted 04-24-2019 3:36 AM Dredge has replied
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 Message 569 by edge, posted 04-24-2019 9:59 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 572 by AZPaul3, posted 04-24-2019 11:46 AM Dredge has replied
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 557 of 1385 (851402)
04-24-2019 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 502 by edge
04-14-2019 11:14 AM


edge writes:
UCA is not useful to you so it is not useful to you. That makes sense.
The theory of common descent certainly offers me no practical use, but the OP asks if the ToCD offers any practical use to applied science - so far none have come to light.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by edge, posted 04-14-2019 11:14 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 562 by Stile, posted 04-24-2019 8:23 AM Dredge has replied
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 558 of 1385 (851403)
04-24-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by Theodoric
04-14-2019 6:16 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Theodoric writes:
Then this thread needs to be closed. You admit you are not discussing science. If you want to continue this discussion it needs to move to the faith forums, it does not belong in the science forums
The OP concerns only science. By asking me for a practical use for a religious belief you are going beyond the bounds of science.
because no matter how much science is presented you will just dismiss because of your religious beliefs.
Not true. Scientific evidence of an old earth was presented to me (on another site) and I eventually accepted it ... which forced me to radically reinterpret the Biblical accounts of creation.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 559 of 1385 (851404)
04-24-2019 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 508 by edge
04-15-2019 8:45 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
edge writes:
But the modern theory of evolution predicts that there will be explainable gaps in the fossil record.
In that case, it's failed. ToE can't explain the Cambrian explosion, for starters. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your atheist belief system (aka evolution) is contradicted by the evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by edge, posted 04-15-2019 8:45 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 568 by edge, posted 04-24-2019 9:49 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 560 of 1385 (851405)
04-24-2019 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 510 by Tanypteryx
04-15-2019 12:31 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
What specific evidence confirms that any gaps in the fossil record are scientifically inexplicable?
Exhibit A: Most (if not all) of the novel organisms that appear during the Cambrian explosion have no fossil ancestors. Sorry to deliver the depressing news.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-15-2019 12:31 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 564 by JonF, posted 04-24-2019 8:34 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 571 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-24-2019 11:33 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 575 of 1385 (851533)
04-28-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 518 by vimesey
04-19-2019 4:44 AM


vimesey writes:
Too bloody right we appeal to authority ! It’s a whole crap load better than an appeal to ignorance or delusion.
Oh, so you think I should place my trust in evolutionary scientists? That's HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA so funny!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 518 by vimesey, posted 04-19-2019 4:44 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 576 of 1385 (851534)
04-28-2019 1:45 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by Tangle
04-19-2019 5:07 AM


Re: Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Tangle writes:
And you can't show us any of these miracles nor the imagined god that does them either. It's almost like they don't exist isn't it?
The Cambrian explosion exists and is there for all to see - you have no excuse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by Tangle, posted 04-19-2019 5:07 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 577 of 1385 (851535)
04-28-2019 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by RAZD
04-19-2019 7:51 AM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus
RAZD writes:
Such classifications are basically arbitrary names used to identify the evidence. What is clearly documented is that the nomenclature was changed because the species was seen as sufficiently different from the original Pelycodus ralstoni species to warrant a new genus name
I realize that - like I said, a species from one genus evolved into a species of another genus.
There is nothing supernatural about human made name tags. Other examples of such naming changes are common in virtually all branches of the tree of life. For example walking stick insects in this pdf (download):Nature - Not Found .... Many different genera and species related by evolution from a common ancestor. That's just a small branch on the tree of life.
Hey, that's a very impressive graphic - but you forgot to mention that it's all based on the ASSUMPTION of common ancestry - all those branches are inferred from a BELIEF, not fact.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by RAZD, posted 04-19-2019 7:51 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 578 of 1385 (851536)
04-28-2019 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by edge
04-19-2019 10:53 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
And the theory of evolution has myriad applications in science.
The OP asks for practical uses for the theory of common descent, not for ToE.
(Sigh...) Once again, the YEC community has to be schooled on the difference between evidence and proof.
Thank you, but I'm aware that a scientific theory is not proven.
No on is trying to 'prove' that something happened. In this case, we simply know that it happened. The theory of evolution explains that transition.
1. You say you can't "prove" that the inner-ear of a mammal evolved from the jaw-bone of a reptile, yet you "know" it happened. This could mean you observed it happening ... but somehow I doubt that's the case.
2. You cannot demonstrate (prove) that the inner-ear of a mammal is even capable of evolving from the jaw-bone of a reptile, yet you "know" it happened. (This is like saying, "I know the Pope is controlled by aliens", but you can't so much as prove that aliens exist.) It seems to me that your claim to scientific knowledge consists of taking a gigantic gap in the fossil record and filling it in with your blind faith in evolution.
3. The fact of the matter is, you don't "KNOW" it happened - you merely BELIEVE it happened.
4. The only reason you claim to "KNOW" it happened is that you believe there is no other possible explanation - thus your claim to Knowledge is actually nothing more than an example of a Fallacy of the False Alternative.
5. What selection pressures could have possilbly caused the jaw-bones of a reptile to evolve into the inner-ear bones of a reptile and how did each evolutionary step (mutation) confer a survival advantage? Evolutionists can't even begin to answer such questions, of course; they simply do what they've always done ... pull out their "evolution done it (somehow)" card and bluff their way through. Is it any wonder increasing numbers of evolutionary theorists (such as Gerd Muller) are calling out current evolutionary theory for its lack of explanatory power viz-a-viz macroevolution?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by edge, posted 04-19-2019 10:53 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by edge, posted 04-28-2019 10:31 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 579 of 1385 (851537)
04-28-2019 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by edge
04-19-2019 10:53 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
How does the Cambrian explosion contradict the theory of evolution?
Since there are different definitions of ToE, I hesitate to say that the Cambrian explosion contradicts it. Rather, I would say the Cambrian explosion contradicts the theory of common descent, which is included in some defintions of ToE.
"... there’s another deposit in the region that throws the whole evolutionary story into disrepute: the Chengyiang bed in southern China. Here, the Cambrian Explosion has been documented in fine detail; all the major animal phyla appear in the early Cambrian without precursors. Even though conditions for the preservation of ancestral forms, whether soft-bodied or microscopic, are ideal (even sponge embryos are found in similar strata), the precursors are nowhere to be found. Paleontologist J. Y. Chen said in the film Icons of Evolution, “Darwinism is maybe only telling part of the story for evolution. Darwin’s tree is a reverse cone shape. Very unexpectedly, our research is convincing us that major phyla is starting down below at the beginning of the Cambrian. The base is wide and gradually narrows. This is almost turned a different way.” His colleague Zhou Qui Gin, a senior research fellow at the site, says (translated), “I do not believe that animals developed gradually from the bottom up. I think the animals suddenly appeared. Among the Chengyiang animals we have found 136 different kinds of animals. And they represent diversity in the level of phyla and classes. So their sudden appearance makes them very special.”
Chinese Fossil Bed Astounds Paleontologists, freerepublic.com, 02/21/2003
Chinese Fossil Beds Astound Paleontologists
"On this episode of ID the Future, Dr. Gnter Bechly, paleoentomologist and former curator for amber and fossil insects for the State Museum of Natural History in Stuttgart, Germany, talks with host Andrew McDiarmid about evidence for macroevolution among insects. The fossil record is “saturated,” Bechly says. By that he doesn’t mean there aren’t new fossil forms to discover. Bechly himself has discovered several. He means we have an extensive enough sampling to confidently discern the major patterns of change and stasis in the history of life. And it shows no sign of insect evolution. It shows no transition from marine arthropods to terrestrial insects, none from wingless insects to winged insects, and no gradual evolution to insects (such as beetles and butterflies) that go through a metamorphosis that includes a pupal stage. And evidence for common ancestry is either contradictory or missing. In short, Bechly argues, the insect fossil record is much better explained by intelligent design than blind evolution."
Gnter Bechly: Rich Fossil Record Says No to Insect Evolution, March 11, 2019 , discovery.org.
Gnter Bechly: Rich Fossil Record Says No to Insect Evolution | ID the Future
"The 1909 discovery of the Burgess Shale in the Canadian Rockies provided the best fossil record of the Cambrian explosion until the 1984 discovery of the slightly older Maotianshan Shales in Chengjiang, China. Because of their excellent preservation, the Chengjiang fauna (many of which were soft-bodied) document the Cambrian explosion in exquisite detail, and J.-Y. Chen was the world expert.
In his February (1999) lecture at the Burke Museum of the University of Washington, Chen described many of the Chengjiang fossils and argued that their abrupt appearance in the early Cambrian was a problem for Darwinian evolution. Darwin’s theory predicts that minor taxonomic differences (such as species and genera) gradually evolve into larger differences (such as classes and phyla), whereas the fossils show that the phyla and many classes appeared first and then diversified into a variety of genera and species. Chen called this “top-down” evolution, to contrast it with the “bottom-up” evolution required by Darwin’s theory. Afterwards, scientists in the audience asked him a lot of questions about specific fossils, but they completely avoided the topic of Darwinian evolution. When Chen later asked me why, I told him that perhaps they were just being polite, because most American scientists disapprove of criticizing Darwinism. At that he laughed, and said: “In China we can criticize Darwin, but not the government; in America, you can criticize the government, but not Darwin.”
""In China We Can Criticize Darwin": Prelude"
"In China We Can Criticize Darwin": Prelude | Evolution News
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by edge, posted 04-19-2019 10:53 AM edge has replied

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 580 of 1385 (851538)
04-28-2019 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 524 by dwise1
04-19-2019 12:09 PM


Re: Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
dwise1 writes:
you support YEC beliefs, yet you refuse to discuss them.
I don't discuss YEC beliefs because I'm not a YEC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 524 by dwise1, posted 04-19-2019 12:09 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 585 by dwise1, posted 04-28-2019 2:40 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 581 of 1385 (851539)
04-28-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 525 by Theodoric
04-19-2019 9:56 PM


Theodoric writes:
Before you think of suggesting a logical fallacy, you should understand the fallacy. I suggest this site as a good primer.
Fallacies - Nizkor
This is the explanation there of appeal to authority ...
Thank you for that explanation. This means that when an evolutionary scientist claims the theory of common descent is a fact, he has committed the fallacy of an appeal to authority, since an evolutionary scientist is not an authority on reality, but only an authority on evolutionary science.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 582 of 1385 (851540)
04-28-2019 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by Theodoric
04-19-2019 10:09 PM


Re: Wrong by definition, no wonder you're confused
Theodoric writes:
Again you think you can win the debate by manipulating words
No manipulation of words required ... and you're a bit late - I've already won the debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Theodoric, posted 04-19-2019 10:09 PM Theodoric has not replied

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 583 of 1385 (851541)
04-28-2019 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
04-20-2019 3:11 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:
I AM mightily impressed with how the brilliant scientists here so often prefer to give an empty ad hominem instead of a substantive answer to a substantive argument, which mine was.
It's interesting that even the many highly qualified scientists who doubt the claims of evolutionary science make the same complaint about evo' scientists - ie, ad hominem attacks.

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 103 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 584 of 1385 (851542)
04-28-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Stile
04-22-2019 8:53 AM


Stile writes:
Let me get this straight. You're saying you "don't have to accept that life comes from a common ancestor" by breeding a sheep dog from a wolf - proving that the sheep dog has a wolf as a common ancestor?
I said, "all life shares a common ancestor"... which you've somehow twisted into "life comes from a common ancestor".
I will reiterate: To say, "all life is connected", is to say that all life shares a common ancestor - a belief that has no practical use in applied science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 8:53 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
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