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Author Topic:   Why I am creationist
Rei
Member (Idle past 7041 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 13 of 210 (142455)
09-14-2004 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
09-13-2004 10:04 PM


I'll skip over the lines of personal incredulity, and go to the conceptions of reality:
quote:
1. Natural selection can be shown but I don't buy into the second mechanism of mutation.
Have you seen the pigeons?
quote:
4. We are way above other animals in our "different ways" - look at what we do; art etc... languages.
Art? Even bowerbirds have an aesthetic sense - in fact, it is one of their biggest mating selection factors, and each bird comes up with their own design (and they're very picky!). Art for art's sake, perhaps, humans might have cornered the market on.
Languages? Not even. Languages with *tens of thousands of words*, yes, but many species have smaller languages. For example, Vervet monkeys naturally have different sounds they make for leopards, eagles, snakes, and other groups of monkeys (among other things); furthermore, these have been shown to be learned behaviors. Even bees have a rather complex language for how simple of organisms they are - through their dances, they can indicate direction, distance, and quality of nectar. While we don't know the meaning of many wild parrot communications, in captivity they have been shown to be able to have vocabularies of several hundred words, and can understand concepts such as color, shape, size, etc, and communicate them. And lets not even get into chimps (which actually form complete sentences (in sign language) in captivity (they're usually short subject-verb clauses, sometimes with adjectives and occasionally multiple nouns)). Languages are very common in the animal world; some animals only have a few sounds, while others have hundreds - some very complex.
quote:
5. People skit bibleGod and laugh and say "that's bull cos evo' happened"
Is that your main problem with evolution? That you see it as anti-God? The vast majority of the people in the world who believe in evolution are theists. In the US, the breakdown among the general population is typically around 50% creationist, 45% guided evolution, 5% atheist. Among the scientific community, it is usually around 50% atheist, 45% guided evolution, and 5% creationist. These are rough numbers; I'd have to dig up a survey for you.
quote:
6. I can do science like test gravity etc, and I also believe science is correct about facts, but theories, why should they be an absolute certainty when we cannot know what happened in the past. I don't buy into uniformatarianism.
Do you not feel that if a theory fits a vast amount of available evidence gathered from all over the planet, miles up and down from the surface, by millions of people over hundreds of years, and no single rival theory has yet been proposed that manages to explain it all, that it would only be logical to accept it?
quote:
And finally, evolutionists piss me off. The same guys who argue creation with me, argue against Christ. So I must conclude this evo thing is against bibleGod, and therefore against me. So stick evolution, it's bullony..
Only on places like this forum. The vast majority of people who believe in evolution also believe in God.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 09-13-2004 10:04 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by mike the wiz, posted 09-15-2004 3:20 PM Rei has replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7041 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 24 of 210 (142569)
09-15-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by mike the wiz
09-15-2004 3:20 PM


quote:
We couldn't evolve in time to survive, could we?
Apply your own experiences in life: Very local changes occur quickly. Regional changes occur slowly. Global changes take ages. And this is even with all that humans have done to speed up the process .
Even if changes occur too quickly in an area for species to survive (and when a region changes, many species *do* die off in the fossil record, and don't manage to survive), whatever region it becomes like, there is generally nothing stopping the species from that other region to move in to occupy the newly available space. As the climate changes, you can watch in the fossil record as horses, for example, move into and across the Asian steppes in response, slowly adapting to the local niches (it's a shame that so many horse species died out - they once were very diverse. And of the wild horse species still in existance, most of them are endangered).
When there is a sudden global change, the results are - as you predicted - catastrophic. Species - especially large ones - can't well handle sudden changes. Look at the fossils below and above the K-T boundary, for example. The vast majority of large animals extant below the K-T boundary did, in fact, die out. However, it was this catastrophe that weeded out the main competition to mammals, which at the time were only a small sidebranch of little hairy burrowing critters
quote:
It might have came about through bible God's wonderous variety.
You know, of the theistic evolutionists that I know, they find incredible wonder in the beauty and variety of God's creation - if not moreso than a creationist.
To add perspective (to creationists and atheists alike): picture a being creating the first lifeform, with the full knowledge of how it would change, through all of the trial and happenstance that would occur, and guiding it to such a beautiful, diverse world, culminating in humans which would worship him. Not only does it involve creating the life, but the very laws of physics that would allow its existance, and the forseeing and/or guiding of everything that was to come. Theistic evolutionists often not only accept that God knew them before they were born, but that God knew them before there was anything even like them in the universe, and led the whole world along so that they and others like them would come into existance.
Trying to picture a being capable of such a feat speaks volumes, to theistic evolutionists, as to the awe and power of God - as much, if not moreso, than a literal biblical interpretation does.

"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by mike the wiz, posted 09-15-2004 3:20 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 09-15-2004 6:48 PM Rei has not replied

  
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