The power of prayer: in action

purpledawn writes:1999 Father dying from cancer. Mother needs help on many levels. I live too far away to be consistent physical help. Did as much as possible. During this time we were devout praying Christians. Had the churches praying for my parents etc. My husband also decided it was time to move closer so we could be more help. Had church and friends praying for that one too.Nov 2000 Father died. Now Mother is on her own.2003 Gave up on praying and church. No added value from either and needed the time to help my mother.2004 Husband is still looking for a job. I eat up a lot of miles and gas to help her manage her money, the house, and the farm. Now my husband's parents are getting to the stage of needing my help. They live in the same area as my mother.My life has been much happier without the prayer and the church.

Schrafinator writes:What if somebody like Mother Theresa prayed every day for a winning lotto ticket because she wanted to help the poor in Calcutta?

Mr Jack writes:1. Something bad happened. (Usually something bad and unlikely).
2. They prayed.
3. Something moderately unusual happened that sorted things out.What I really fail to understand is how 3 can be an example of their gods loving and guiding hand but 1 is, of course, not. If your god's so big, so loving, so all-knowing and so powerful why, exactly, didn't he stop 1 and save you the whole mess in the first place?

1 And Abraham was old, and well stricken in age: and the LORD had blessed Abraham in all things.
2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:
3 And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
4 But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.
5 And the servant said unto him, Peradventure the woman will not be willing to follow me unto this land: must I needs bring thy son again unto the land from whence thou camest?
6 And Abraham said unto him, Beware thou that thou bring not my son thither again.
7 The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence.
8 And if the woman will not be willing to follow thee, then thou shalt be clear from this my oath: only bring not my son thither again.
9 And the servant put his hand under the thigh of Abraham his master, and sware to him concerning that matter.
10 And the servant took ten camels of the camels of his master, and departed; for all the goods of his master were in his hand: and he arose, and went to Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.
11 And he made his camels to kneel down without the city by a well of water at the time of the evening, even the time that women go out to draw water.
12 And he said, O LORD God of my master Abraham, I pray thee, send me good speed this day, and shew kindness unto my master Abraham.
13 Behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the daughters of the men of the city come out to draw water:
14 And let it come to pass, that the damsel to whom I shall say, Let down thy pitcher, I pray thee, that I may drink; and she shall say, Drink, and I will give thy camels drink also: let the same be she that thou hast appointed for thy servant Isaac; and thereby shall I know that thou hast shewed kindness unto my master.
15 And it came to pass, before he had done speaking, that, behold, Rebekah came out, who was born to Bethuel, son of Milcah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham's brother, with her pitcher upon her shoulder.
16 And the damsel was very fair to look upon, a virgin, neither had any man known her: and she went down to the well, and filled her pitcher, and came up.
17 And the servant ran to meet her, and said, Let me, I pray thee, drink a little water of thy pitcher.
18 And she said, Drink, my lord: and she hasted, and let down her pitcher upon her hand, and gave him drink.
19 And when she had done giving him drink, she said, I will draw water for thy camels also, until they have done drinking.
20 And she hasted, and emptied her pitcher into the trough, and ran again unto the well to draw water, and drew for all his camels.
21 And the man wondering at her held his peace, to wit whether the LORD had made his journey prosperous or not.
22 And it came to pass, as the camels had done drinking, that the man took a golden earring of half a shekel weight, and two bracelets for her hands of ten shekels weight of gold;
23 And said, Whose daughter art thou? tell me, I pray thee: is there room in thy father's house for us to lodge in?
24 And she said unto him, I am the daughter of Bethuel the son of Milcah, which she bare unto Nahor.
25 She said moreover unto him, We have both straw and provender enough, and room to lodge in.
26 And the man bowed down his head, and worshipped the LORD.
27 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of my master Abraham, who hath not left destitute my master of his mercy and his truth: I being in the way, the LORD led me to the house of my master's brethren.
28 And the damsel ran, and told them of her mother's house these things.

Crashfrog writes:You can't grow and mature if you're dead. That is, after all, what we're talking about - not stupid stuff like God not making sure you have change for the parking meter this morning, but floods and war and famine and disease and crime - real problems that cause real death.

Crashfrog writes:See, you're just blaming the victims. As though it's the fault of, say, a passenger on 9/11 that they were killed in that tragedy - as though a "challenge" was set before them, but they failed.How disgusting.

Gilgamesh writes: Remember I don't pray so I have to rely of good ol' chance!1) I was riding my motorbike in heavy Brisbane city traffic a few years ago, down a four lane highway. My bike suddenly started spluttering and starting firing on less cylinders. I was running out of petrol in the centre lane on a mega busy highway! Around the very next corner I spied a petrol station... unfortunately on the other side of the road. The was a solid wall of cars coming the other way, and I wasn't meant to cross anyway as there were double lines. As my bike started slowing, I faced the prospect of grinding to a halt in the middle of the road, in heavy traffic at night, because I couldn't make my way over to the curb. At the last second the traffic coming the other way parted, I dashed across the double lines (naughty me) and with a now stopped engine rolled right up to the premium unleaded petrol pump.2)Years ago, I drove interstate by myself and the first indication I had that my car was in trouble was at 2.30am in the morning. I had been playing hours of very loud music and hadn't been able to hear the engine. When the tape finally finished, I heard my engine ratlling itself into oblivion. I stopped and looked: through some defect all of the sump oil had been forced through the rocker cover breather into the air cleaner box and out underneath the car. I was running with no oil. I didn't fancy the prospect of stopping in the middle of absolutely no-where in the middle of the night, so I hopped back in and limped it to the next town (another 55 kms away) hoping (dare I say praying!) the engine wouldn't seize. When I got there at 3am, the town was deserted. At the local petrol station there was a number for roadside assist: I called it, a cheery mechanic arrived, re-filled my oil, stopped up the breather tube and the car gave me great service for the next two years.Being a petrol head, I've got many others, but I'll try this short motorcycling one.3) I got cleaned up by a mini van while riding my motorbike once. What was amazing is how the van turned into me from head on and slammed into the motorbike swingarm (with enough force to crush the alloy).... and somehow managed to miss my leg which of course lies directly in front of the swingarm. How did the van turn into the rear side of my bike when we were approaching each other head on, and fail to collect my leg sticking out, on the way through?Aren't life's twists and turns absoutely amazing. For atheist and theist alike.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Crashfrog writes:Don't mischaracterize the debate. You responded to the existence of bad things happening with your statements on "challenges." Since everybody knew we were talking about, among other things, tragedies where people die, that must mean you meant that tragic death constituted a "challenge."That, or you were trying to equivocate on what "something bad" means. Either way, you're not responding to the question.

See, in Buz's example, the mechanic was open on labour day (didn't he do that every year? He was open a good while before buz came by and prayed), had a part left to him years before (and if god was going to intervene years before why didn't he intervene in a way that saved buz the trouble?).