The power of prayer: in action

Deleted double post. Sorry!This message has been edited by purpledawn, 10-28-2004 02:07 PM

Just how was I speaking for them?
What did I say, that they haven't said themselves?

Uh, the definition of subjective is that it's unique to your own perspective. I think what you're trying to say is that even though it is subjective, it can feel very real. You're acting as our guide in this. So far you've told us that whatever happens is God's answer to our prayers, and that we're free to interpret it as an answered prayer, an unanswered prayer, or a prayer answered in an unexpected way. But this covers all possibilities, and so one can never tell if prayer had an effect or not.So let's say I'm learning how to pray, and I offer a prayer for an elderly friend who is going to have major surgery soon. Here are the possible outcomes:

1. The surgery is successful. My prayers were answered.
   ​
2. The surgery is unsuccessful, the friend dies. Either my prayers were not answered, or they were answered in a way that I didn't expect. Perhaps my friend was suffering, and his suffering is over, so that death was a good thing in this case.
   ​
3. The surgery is unsuccessful, the friend lives but with significant deficits. Either my prayers were not answered, or they were answered in a way that I didn't expect. Perhaps my friend will learn valuable spirtual lessons as he deals with his deficits, coming to a greater appreciation of the Lord's way.

Since every outcome includes the possibility that it was the prayed for answer, how can I tell when a prayer is answered? I can't, of course. And with no feedback about what constitutes proper prayer, I'll never be able to improve my praying ability. That's your subjective opinion. If it were really true then it would leave measurable evidence in objective reality.--Percy

Prove it. When I say there is a God, its because thats what I believe. For you to believe there is a God, you have to find him yourself. you on the other hand have made an announcment that there is no God, and we should believe it. What about the Africans that enjoy killing?
Brundi SlaughterYou act like you've been around since the start of time, and have seen all the chances God has gave them/us. I wouldn't attempt to judge that, or use it as an exuse not to believe in God. Now there's a word twist, Brilliant! I'm sorry to say this, but taking God out of the picture, and teaching others to feel the same way, to me is not really helping. Finding out who God really is, and going out in the world, and spreading the Love would help.

What a statement! care to demonstrate? Sudan's cruel and slow starvationyou could pray that these people find food and shelter before more of them die, say within the next week ?!that should be a whiz, thanks!

---

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

I am not doing a very good job. I am going to put together what I have learned very recently about prayer, and share it. It has helped me.The thing about your friend dying in the hospital, no matter what the outcome, if you are close to God, he will show why what happened, happened. Thats the difference. We all have to pay for our sins, I guess no amount of prayer can stop that from happening.Some friends of mine just had a brother who commited suicide. Instead of asking themselves why for the next 30 years, their faith was strong enough, and thier relationship was close enough to God, that God presented the answers to them. They turned the situation around, and God showed them the good in it, and they acted on it. This re-inforced the faith in many people, and it was for God's glory. This doesn't change what happened, or the pain from it completely, but it sure does help when you get answers. The reasons why he did it is another story.

but isn't the christian answer - "your brother will burn in hell*"where is the comfort in that - The fact that their brother will suffer forever?* or is it limbo those days?

quote:

---

Your requests must also be to show his glory. So praying for a winning lotto ticket is out.

---

What if somebody like Mother Theresa prayed every day for a winning lotto ticket because she wanted to help the poor in Calcutta?

The answer is not always yes.
But I do recieve an answer.Lord in heaven, I ask that you would send help to Darfur and stop the suffering of innocent children. I ask that you would put it on the hearts of everyone reading this to send help or money there so that children like Nadia do not have to die. When we see the results of this, we will acknowledge that it is from you, and a direct result of your mighty power Lord. I ask this in the name of Jesus, Amen.I would ask other Christians in this forum to dedicate a little prayer time to this, because brother legend has made it known to us.

quote:

---

Tell me in your life how thing you got away with when you were younger. Tell me God wasn't watching over you then, when your parents weren't around. I know I got away with an incredible amount of things.

---

What about all of the kids who don't get away with things, who are actually killed or maimed?Was God watching them?

I'm sorry, I'm busy proving that there are no invisible, intangible, inch-tall baboons crawling around inside my rectum. Once I've got that done, I'll move on to God.But let's humor you a second. You say there's a God. Cool. What's "God"?I'm not asking for a resume line, such as "the creator of the Earth". I'm asking for what it is. Once you've established that, you can start quibbling about whether or not it's there. What about them? I don't recall speaking on their behalf one way or the other. The only thing I said about them was that it was within God's power to stop them, and that he chooses not to do so, presumably because he's far too busy making damn sure you pray in the right spot. I see... so the millions of Africans killed thus far simply didn't take advantage of the many chances God gave them to have an awesome life.You should tell them that. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. (Oops, there I go assuming that Africans want an awesome life.) I notice you don't say how I twisted your words. Only that I did. It sure would be a shame if people were just good to each other for the sake of doing so, rather than because God expected it of them.What a nightmare world that would be. Heck, I can't even get anyone to tell me what God really is!Besides, I have yet to see all this love God is laying down on the people. I guess he loves the Africans by allowing all that pain and death? (Although in fairness, I can't say for sure if they don't like pain and death. Hey, maybe they do, and it is God's way of loving them!)This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-28-2004 02:59 PM

thanks for this riVeRraT,let us know what the answer is.though, within a week or two, it should be obvious.

---

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

But is there any objective reality to the power of prayer? How do you tell the difference between a God showing you why it happened, and you rationalizing why it happened. But some die who have committed no sins, babies being the most obvious example. But even if "too many sins" is the answer you find, how do you know whether the answer is God's or just your own rationalization? Same question. How did they know God presented them the answer? How do they know it wasn't a rationalization produced within their own minds to help them live on?Christians are not the only people to whom these explanations occur. They occur to everyone of all religions and no religion. After a sad event it is human nature to explore whether it was possibly for the best. Some ascribe these thoughts to God, but there's never any evidence, and the outcome is the same for both believer and non-believer.If prayer had any practical efficacy, it would evidence itself in the real world by affecting outcomes. Scientific prayer studies have been plagued by serious weaknesses, most notably a studied reluctance to define prayer and to place suitable controls upon its expression during studies, but there are other serious problems, ranging from the lack of positive results to the shenannigans of people like Wirth.--Percy

Hi Purpledawn, Your husband hasn't been able to find a job for several years?

It is my understanding, from the bible, that God is not going to do something so obvious as to negate faith.